stefantalpalaru repo

[lefsha]

What has happened? Why this repo was dropped?

I read this: https://github.com/gentoo/api-gentoo-org/commit/7c46900a7c4cd57b11091ae8327a1e855bb97762
and this: https://github.com/stefantalpalaru/gentoo-overlay/commit/4063cfd853a30971de4790c7435b26497ccdb4b5

and I am on his side! It's NOT your business to decide which repos I as user can use or not !!!

As long it is NOT an official Gentoo repo it should be AVAILABLE. Especially if you cannot! put that repo down or you are incompetent.
Don't use practices from N.Korea or Russia! They are not functional! If you don't like some one - it is your personal problem!
You are NOT in the position to insist others to like or dislike the same as you do!


This guy: David Seifert <soap@gentoo.org> must put his proud on the shelf, shut up and put repo back.

That is a known fact, that Gentoo drops the support of "old" EAPIs or ebuilds for no reason. They think people must run in front of the train
and update their systems including all packages they are using on weekly basis.

Gentoo devs even drop "old" kernels for no reasons. They are NOT aware, that some applications require that particular version. ZFS is a good example here.

Rushing to upgrade portage on daily basis brings no one further. We aren't using linux to run portage. Some one must come up with that idea.
_________________
Lefsha

[asturm]

[logrusx]

[pietinger]

It is MY decision with whom I speak and with whom I will not maintain contact because I have been insulted. Anyone who doesn't have good manners and can't express themselves well is not a conversation partner for me. And yes, that is SOLELY my decision.

[pietinger]

Moved from Portage & Programming to Gentoo Chat.
_________________
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/User:Pietinger

[Zucca]

[pietinger]

The job of moderation is to stop things BEFORE they get really ugly. It is NOT the job to make things worse. There is a German proverb (I don't know if you can translate it):

“Don't pour more oil on the fire.”

That's why it can sometimes make sense to only address something very briefly. On the other hand, this can lead to questions remaining unanswered. I know that and that's why I pointed out the possibility of writing to me by e-mail. This offer was accepted and I had an email correspondence about this thread (very factual and respectful on both sides; it ended with an invitation to a drink). This even involved two questions:

1. Was the reaction of our Gentoo developers appropriate or an overreaction, or even an escalation?

2. Why was this thread locked immediately?

I spent a few nights thinking about whether I should explain something else in this thread and I think I owe it (but since I'm also very lazy, I'll just copy and paste from my reply emails here; I've only inserted two **). So this is my detailed opinion on both questions:

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You dont have seen it? It was: "before the fu**ers dropped EAPI 6 support"

[At first there was some confusion as to whether you can still use the repo at all.]

Yes, I am with you: An insult is no reason to destroy someone/something ... but I think this is not the case here ... because:

Our Gentoo developer(s) (I dont know if @soap alone or in consultation) have removed the repo from our list: overlays/repositories.xml ... but this does not prevent it from being (manually) integrated (that's why @asturm said: “No one is stopping you to continue using it”) ... it's just not as convenient (for users). So, this is for me no destroying but only a "we dont list you".

Yes, it would be a completely other situation if Gentoo had done something to completely kill this repo

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I dont think so. His reaction was not removing it; instead he added: "This overlay is no longer available in the official Gentoo list, because core Gentoo devs are as petty as they are incompetent."
Honestly, if someone is still stepping on the gas, then they have proven that they have no insight whatsoever.

I am pretty sure, IF he would have deleted the "fu**ers" and send a mail to our devs with a "sorry, I was frustrated, but it was not okay to insult you" THEN I think there would be no problem anymore ...

On a sidenote:

My grandpa used to say: “An insult says more about the insulter than it does about the insulted”. And he was right (as always); you immediately recognize that someone is no longer able to report objectively about something (e.g.: I am frustrated because X no longer works) and therefore has to resort to primitive solutions. It's a bit like the other saying I learned from grandpa: “Anyone who shouts makes a fool of themselves”.

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Here I have a different opinion: If someone says/does A and then a B happens from the other side, then that is not yet an escalation but a reaction/response. Only when A AND B have happened can we talk about escalation. And in this case it even looks like A was followed by a C (that's the first escalation for me) and our Gentoo developers don't do a D here (they ignore it). That would be by my definition: Gentoo developers de-escalate. But again, I'm not involved in this issue. My job was to make it clear to the PO of this thread that he can't DEMAND anything, especially not in this attitude. Yes, you can make a WISH, a request, as politely and kindly as possible. But this sense of entitlement: here I am and everyone has to do what I want, immediately leads to the reaction in the thread.

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Then I have unfortunately expressed myself misleadingly: No, if there was an action (A), and there is a counter-reaction (B), then this is NOT yet an escalation (actio/reactionem). The only thing you COULD say at this point is that the counter-reaction is exaggerated (*). But an escalation can only occur AFTER A+B has happened - as C.

*) Now the question "is removing a link" an exaggerated reaction?

My answer:

Imagine you have placed a link (from your homepage) to an article of mine. And in this article I insult you. Now you are being FORCED to advertise this insult ... by not being allowed to remove the link to my article ... what do you think?

If I hold an insult in one hand and a missing link in the other, then I know which hand weighs heavier ... and so it is clear to me that there was no overreaction.

Yes, our Gentoo developers have ‘only’ removed a link, you now have to go to the page with the insult yourself. We don't advertise to people who don't know how to behave around adults.

But again, as a moderator, I wasn't judging this one, I was judging @lefsha's initial post. This post is so wrong and has no place in our forum when someone compares a part of our Gentoo community (yes, our Gentoo developers are a part of the whole Gentoo community) to North Korea AND additionally DEMANDS something that cannot be demanded. Hint: you couldn't even DEMAND a bug fix. You can report a bug and usually developers are happy about this report because they themselves have an interest in bug-free software ... but DEMANDING ... what do you want to do when someone has retired? This sense of entitlement is unfortunately very common these days. Then I explain the following to people:

You HAVE to work in my garden for 3 hours every day ... without pay ... without food ... nothing ... you simply get nothing. I just force you to work.

Your answer would be: Are you completely crazy? I am not your slave!

Only then do some people understand that they can't demand anything here, they can only ask for something ...

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[...] maybe a fair warning before? [...]

Yes, I agree (but I dont know if there was some; I am/was not involved it the whole thing)

Yes, I would tell someone: "For me this is an insult; think about it ... and dont be surprised if I react to it, if you dont take it back."

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I have unlocked this thread again. But I don't think I will change my mind about the reaction of our Gentoo developers. On the contrary, I would even go one step further and ask if they are not obliged to do so? Do we really want to link to someone who insults us? My opinion on the initial post will probably not change either.
_________________
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/User:Pietinger

[pingtoo]

pietinger.

Fantastic post, will thought and will explained. Really appreciated.

[logrusx]

Pietinger, I think our developer should not take offense by some punk kid's language. I think it's pathetic they resorted to retaliation. Maybe I should speak in singular form here and not address all of them, but I'm not sure. The fact that somebody went to check the git log to find offense there is even more pathetic. That's what I wanted to say when you locked the thread.

Your post on the other hand is incomprehensible. I tried to read it but it's long, incoherent, scattered.

Best Regards,
Georgi

[asturm]

Needless to say, interactions with this individual are going back much further than their recent utterances on their isolated overlay. It is everyone's guess what tone they struck on average.

[logrusx]

I think what happens outside of Gentoo should not move even a single dust particle inside Gentoo and be completely disregarded.

Best Regards,
Georgi

[asturm]

[Ralphred]

[logrusx]

[logrusx]