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Goverp
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 Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2024 12:16 pm Post subject: Kernel-6.11 Joystick, mouse and keyboard now EXPERT mode??? |
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I thought I'd tidy up my kernel modules, as I've been building far too many. To do that, I've plugged things in, then run "make localmodconfig" and compared the resulting new .config with the old. Then I realised I hadn't plugged my joystick in, so CONFIG_INPUT_JOYDEV was missing.
So off to "make nconfig" to set CONFIG_INPUT_JOYDEV. Searching ( F8 ) shows: | Code: | INPUT_JOYDEV [=y]
Type : tristate
Defined at drivers/input/Kconfig:133
Prompt: Joystick interface
Depends on: INPUT [=y]
Location:
-> Device Drivers
-> Input device support
-> Generic input layer (needed for keyboard, mouse, ...) (INPUT [=y])
(1) -> Joystick interface (INPUT_JOYDEV [=y]) |
All fine, but when I try to navigate to it, Input device support has no Generic input layer.
Turns out it's now hidden behind the CONFIG_EXPERT expert mode flag. Which means that you now need to be an expert to have a keyboard, mouse or joystick. So headless for non-experts. I guess it stops them typing "rm -rf /" 
Is it just me, or is the world going mad?
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pietinger
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Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 5370
Location: Bavaria
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| Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2024 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Goverp wrote: | | [...] Is it just me, or is the world going mad? |
May I ask which architecture you are using? Because: "CONFIG_UML is not available for the default architecture x86"
If I start the configuration from a "naked" /usr/src/linux I see:
| Code: | Device Drivers --->
Input device support --->
-*- Generic input layer (needed for keyboard, mouse, ...) |
So, it is enabled by default because:
| Code: | Selected by [y]:
- VT [=y] && TTY [=y] |
And if I look (in drivers/tty/Kconfig) why VT and TTY is enabled by default, I see:
| Code: | config TTY
bool "Enable TTY" if EXPERT
default y
...
config VT
bool "Virtual terminal" if EXPERT
select INPUT
default y if !UML |
So, everything is enabled by default, if you not using UML ...
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Last edited by pietinger on Mon Oct 14, 2024 1:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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GDH-gentoo
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Joined: 20 Jul 2019
Posts: 1802
Location: South America
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| Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2024 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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It looks like CONFIG_INPUT has been hidden behind CONFIG_EXPERT for quite some time —and CONFIG_EMBEDDED before that—. Note that it also has default y, so likely, the meaning is "you have to be an expert if you don't want built-in keyboard, mouse and joystick support"
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| NeddySeagoon wrote: | | I'm not a witch, I'm a retired electronics engineer |
| Ionen wrote: | | As a packager I just don't want things to get messier with weird build systems and multiple toolchains requirements though |
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Goverp
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Joined: 07 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2024 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| pietinger wrote: | | Goverp wrote: | ...
May I ask which architecture you are using? Because: "CONFIG_UML is not available for the default architecture x86"
If I start the configuration from a "naked" /usr/src/linux I see:
| Code: | Device Drivers --->
Input device support --->
-*- Generic input layer (needed for keyboard, mouse, ...) |
...
So, everything is enabled by default, if you not using UML ... |
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It's amd64 = x86_64, normal hardware.
CONFIG_UML does not exist, and can't be set, as there's no option to do so.
I think you always have CONFIG_EXPERT set, and I don't, and that makes the Generic input layer (CONFIG_INPUT) invisible, hence my question.
I was going to play with Expert mode next, and read your excellent wiki articles.
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Last edited by Goverp on Mon Oct 14, 2024 7:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Goverp
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Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 2202
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| Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2024 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| GDH-gentoo wrote: | | ... Note that it also has default y, so likely, the meaning is "you have to be an expert if you don't want built-in keyboard, mouse and joystick support" |
Ah, that (a) explains it, and
(b) perhaps introduces a new opportunity for error:
If I select Expert mode, deselect JOYDEV and then deselect Expert mode, does the resulting kernel have JOYDEV or not? I'd hope so given the above, but I ought to check, if I can work out how to check. (i.e. is Expert mode merely a switch that hides options, or does it override now-hidden settings with defaults?)
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pietinger
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| Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2024 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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Hmmm ... I did my testing with 6.11.3 and 6.6.52 and was not able to hide < > Generic input layer (needed for keyboard, mouse, ...) completely ... I was able to make it as small as possible with deactivating i915 and enabling EXPERT; when I then go into Input device support ---> I get:
| Code: | < > Generic input layer (needed for keyboard, mouse, ...)
Hardware I/O ports ---> |
The reason for this is a missing VT and TTY (and also a missing i915).
| Goverp wrote: | | [...] If I select Expert mode, deselect JOYDEV and then deselect Expert mode, does the resulting kernel have JOYDEV or not? |
It will have no JOYDEV because you have disabled it.
| Goverp wrote: | | [...] is Expert mode merely a switch that hides options, or does it override now-hidden settings with defaults?) |
Most (but not all) options with "if EXPERT" have a "default" (either a simple "y" or an default on another option). After enabling expert mode this default is not taken anymore ... BUT ... please keep in mind:
THIS is ONLY true if you have not saved the configuration the first time. If you have saved a config with something enabled IT WILL STAY enabled. You can test it simply with CONFIG_BLOCK (if you dont have enabled GENTOO_LINUX_INIT_SYSTEMD) OR with CONFIG_TTY ->
Scenario A)
1. Configure an empty (== no .config there; or a "make distclean" before) /usr/src/linux and do as first change enabling EXPERT
2. Look at CONFIG_BLOCK and/or CONFIG_TTY
3. It is disabled
4. Exit WITHOUT saving
Scenario B)
1. Go into the config and DONT enable EXPERT (do soemthing harmless)
2. Exit WITH save
3. Go again into the config and enable EXPERT
4. Now look to CONFIG_BLOCK and/or CONFIG_TTY
I have tried to explain this behaviour in the chapter: Do I need a "make defconfig" before I start ? of: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/User:Pietinger/Tutorials/Manual_kernel_configuration
and
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/User:Pietinger/Experimental/Manual_Configuring_Current_Kernel#Expert_Mode
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sublogic
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Joined: 21 Mar 2022
Posts: 304
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2024 10:59 pm Post subject: Kernel-6.11 Joystick, mouse and keyboard now EXPERT mode??? |
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| Goverp wrote: | | Code: | INPUT_JOYDEV [=y]
Type : tristate
Defined at drivers/input/Kconfig:133
Prompt: Joystick interface
Depends on: INPUT [=y]
Location:
-> Device Drivers
-> Input device support
-> Generic input layer (needed for keyboard, mouse, ...) (INPUT [=y])
(1) -> Joystick interface (INPUT_JOYDEV [=y]) |
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The (1) at the bottom of the display is your shortcut to INPUT_JOYDEV . Did you try typing "1" ? Does it take you to the right place even if CONFIG_EXPERT is not set ? |
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Goverp
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Posts: 2202
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| Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2024 9:26 am Post subject: |
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| sublogic wrote: | | Goverp wrote: | | Code: | INPUT_JOYDEV [=y]
...
(1) -> Joystick interface (INPUT_JOYDEV [=y]) |
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The (1) at the bottom of the display is your shortcut to INPUT_JOYDEV . Did you try typing "1" ? Does it take you to the right place even if CONFIG_EXPERT is not set ? |
It takes me to a useless version of the Generic input devices screen, with just the title, and nothing to click on!
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Goverp
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| Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2024 9:33 am Post subject: |
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| pietinger wrote: | Hmmm ... I did my testing with 6.11.3 and 6.6.52 and was not able to hide < > Generic input layer (needed for keyboard, mouse, ...) completely ...
Most (but not all) options with "if EXPERT" have a "default" (either a simple "y" or an default on another option). After enabling expert mode this default is not taken anymore ... BUT ... please keep in mind:
THIS is ONLY true if you have not saved the configuration the first time. If you have saved a config with something enabled IT WILL STAY enabled. ...
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I am also on 6.11.3. Not sure why we're getting different results, but IMHO Kconfig is a weird ad-hoc programming thing, and inconsistent behaviour is no surprise. And I'm not surprised to be surprised by the EXPERT behaviour, if you see what I mean.
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