x86 profile 23.0 and new USE flags?

[tld]

On my AMD machine I've not noticed this, but on my old x86 MythTV systems running profile default/linux/x86/23.0/i686/split-usr/desktop, I keep running into cases where new USE flags seem to be getting added and enabled by default. It's frankly getting a little annoying.

A few updates ago this was done with the "qt6" USE flag which I had to disable for a few reasons. On the update I'm just doing now, the wayland USE flag was suddenly enabled globally. The only reason I even noticed the wayland one was that I noticed qtwayland was about to be installed.

What on earth is up with that? I don't recall that sort of thing happening to existing profiles in the past.

EDIT: One thing to note here is that, when I built this AMD machine I chose to NOT use the desktop profile, however those x86 machines are using the desktop one. I suppose that's related, but I still don't recall those sorts of changes in the past.

Tom

[asturm]

It's a rolling release, so by definition there will be changes over time. Why are you surprised?

[logrusx]

Update more often. There will be fewer changes at once and you'll notice them easier.

To expect things will not change is totally unreasonable.

Maybe in the past there weren't that many changes, because software was actively being created. But when something is already created it's subject to change. Especially when major change in something that fundamental like the graphic system is underway.

Best Regards,
Georgi

[lars_the_bear]

[asturm]

No, and that reasoning is pointless, as was already explained to you, since packages over several months and years are undergoing far more IUSE and dependency changes by themselves, so why would you draw the line at the profile when all it does is setting a common standard (and more importantly it cannot "hold back" any of these individual package changes happening beforehand). It must mean you fundamentally haven't understood Gentoo yet.

[lars_the_bear]

[asturm]

Most people probably do not expect to find a Debian style stale release system when they install a rolling release distribution, so we did not have to explain this topic all that much in the past. Consequently, Gentoo Wiki is telling you what a profile is, not all the things it is not.

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Profile_(Portage)

[lars_the_bear]

[asturm]

You are just attributing the meaning of said major/minor version to the wrong thing. It is versioning the things that I emphasised in bold.

All the headway you need to make is throw away the Debian mindset.

[pingtoo]

May be this should be move to chat sub forum.

I total support the rolling release concept. As in changes just happen there is no special request to announce the changes.

However I disagree the argument that changes in a manner that affect default assumption should just happen without notification. For example the profile have that major/minor notion. having that lead to assumption it is a state. Should the state change it will be communicated in a manner through advance major/minor number.

If we take the argument changes can affect state without notification than why even put the major/minor notion in the name of the profile? for example there should no reason to create a change notification about profile 17.1 to profile 23.0 because the rolling process would allow this changes and the notify manner should be just use Gentoo News announce.

My argument for supporting the notion advance major/minor number for profile level USE flag changes is that profile level change is not a place to examine for most people so it tend to giving out surprise for those unsuspected. And using a major/minor number advance practice give other a chance to review and choice as opposite to after fact that to have to deal with the changes for either accept it or reverse it.

Disclosure, this profile state changes does not affect me, because my practice using Gentoo does not perform frequent changes. I only make new build from scratch when I feel I need. On occasion where I need additional function for my daily drive, I will just install the specific package(s) the satisfy my need.

[asturm]

No. Every user gets that chance when they run emerge with --ask. If you don't do that, you don't care enough to have a right to complain afterwards.

[pingtoo]

[sam_]

In the past, I've contemplated proposing new profiles for Python target changes (or Ruby) but it would mean that profile lifetime becomes far shorter (no longer 5-7+ years for sure) and we'd also then risk boxing ourselves in if people want to do smaller changes in older profiles (suppose a flag really should be enabled or disabled and we don't want to wait for everyone to migrate, what then?)

The other question is whether people would really actually follow the profile upgrades given they already put them off now, and also if it would confuse people given profile upgrades are normally major changes.

I continue to think about how we can better communicate changes though.

Anyway, the status quo is how we've always done it. There might be arguments for changing it for certain things but never changing anything in existing profiles isn't a good idea either.

[pjp]

[asturm]