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DarrenG
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2024 7:37 am    Post subject: Install fails at 'Mounting local filesystems' Reply with quote

Hi. I am essentially completely new to Gentoo. I have searched for this on here, but either my search terms were wrong or it is new. Apologies if not. Also, not sure if this post should be here (install) or in the 'other architecture' forum.

I am trying to install on an AlphaServer 1200. 1GB RAM, 2 EV56 chips, 4 SCSI HDDs, 1 SCSI CD, 1 IDE CD. It boots from SRM console no worries, but when it gets to 'Mounting local filesystems' it just stops. It's not dead -- I can use Ctrl-Alt-Del to reset, for example, so it does take input. (I should say the box boots into Debian 5.0 no worries.)

I think the problem is a lack of firmware/kernel modules for my hardware. Years ago (say 10 years ago), they were in Gentoo (at least, I remember getting to the stage of trying to compile a kernel, so I must have got a lot further, but it wasw a long time ago).

I'm not sure how to dig up dmesg output from the installation kernel, because I cannot seem to get out of the boot sequence without shutting the thing down.

The lights on the HDDs flicker during boot, while activating udev. It finds the root device on /dev/srt0 (the CD) ok. When it says 'populating udev' during the boot, all the HDD lights flicker. But that's it.

During a previous attempt with a Stage 1 from maybe 6 months ago, I could get to /run/initramfs/gksosreport.txt
I
and it said:

could not load sym53c8xx, qla1280, pata_pdc202xx_old.

So I am wondering if there is a way to add more firmware to the initrd on the Stage 1 disc. With a lot of advice, I have tried this with Debian with some success (https://lists.debian.org/debian-alpha/2019/11/msg00033.html). They gave me a method to unpack the ISO, then unpack the initrd, add firmware to it and package it all up again.

I do not want to assume that would work here, so I am asking for advice.

THanks!

Darren
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Banana
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2024 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello and welcome to the forums.

How did you do your install? Are you running gentoo already?

The amount of RAM worries me. Gentoo builds required software you want to install and thus needs ressources to do so. 1GB RAM is not enough for this kind of process. I don't know if 1GB RAM is even enough to build the kernel.
One idea could be using another hardware which builds the required software packages and the AlphaServer uses them.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2024 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DarrenG,

Welcome to Gentoo.
Let's start at the beginning by discovering your hardware.

Boot any linux that works.

Run lspci -nnk and post the output.
Not all versions of lspci support the -k option but it's only a nice to have.

With that information, we can unpick the Alpha liveCD and see what is missing,

Another thought ...
The Gentoo ISO is not required to install Gentoo. It's just a toolkit.
Boot whatever works
Get a root shell
Run mkdir /mnt/gentoo
Follow the handbook.

/mnt/gentoo is about all that the ISO gives you.
Extra points for doing the install over ssh. :)

I can see lack of RAM being a problem further down the road.

== edit ==
It's even possible to put the Gentoo stage 3 on top of a kernel from another distro but let's not go there yet.
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DarrenG
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2024 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear NeddySeagoon.

Many thanks. I think you are referring to https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Installation_alternatives#Installing_Gentoo_from_an_existing_Linux_distribution, yes?

Now that I have seen it, that's a good idea. The alpha has several HDD, so I can choose one and manipulate it from the working Debian 5 installation. AFAIK Alpha needs you to install aboot to the front of the drive. but I don't think that has to be a problem. IN fact, I suspect I can use the aboot on an existing working drive to boot a distro on another drive. Hmm.

The handbook refers to the CD method as recommended, though. So with that in mind, here is the lspci output. This is a system from last century, so it is possible that some of the needed stuff has been weeded out in recent years as cruft ...

lspci outout:

Code:
0000:00:01.0 EISA bridge [0602]: Intel Corporation 82375EB/SB PCI to EISA Bridge [8086:0482] (rev 15)
        Kernel driver in use: pci_eisa
0000:00:02.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: Cirrus Logic GD 5446 [1013:00b8]
        Kernel modules: cirrusfb
0000:00:03.0 Mass storage controller [0180]: Promise Technology, Inc. PDC20262 (FastTrak66/Ultra66) [105a:4d38] (rev 01)
        Kernel driver in use: Promise_Old_IDE
        Kernel modules: pdc202xx_old
0000:00:04.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Digital Equipment Corporation DECchip 21050 [1011:0001] (rev 02)
0000:01:00.0 SCSI storage controller [0100]: QLogic Corp. ISP1020 Fast-wide SCSI [1077:1020] (rev 02)
        Kernel driver in use: qla1280
        Kernel modules: qla1280
0001:02:01.0 SCSI storage controller [0100]: LSI Logic / Symbios Logic 53c810 [1000:0001] (rev 02)
        Kernel driver in use: sym53c8xx
        Kernel modules: sym53c8xx
0001:02:02.0 USB Controller [0c03]: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82xxxxx UHCI USB 1.1 Controller [1106:3038] (rev 62)
        Kernel driver in use: uhci_hcd
        Kernel modules: uhci-hcd
0001:02:02.1 USB Controller [0c03]: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82xxxxx UHCI USB 1.1 Controller [1106:3038] (rev 62)
        Kernel driver in use: uhci_hcd
        Kernel modules: uhci-hcd
0001:02:02.2 USB Controller [0c03]: VIA Technologies, Inc. USB 2.0 [1106:3104] (rev 65)
        Kernel driver in use: ehci_hcd
        Kernel modules: ehci-hcd
0001:02:03.0 Ethernet controller [0200]: Digital Equipment Corporation DECchip 21140 [FasterNet] [1011:0009] (rev 20)
        Kernel driver in use: tulip
        Kernel modules: tulip


Code tags added by Neddyseagoon

Cheerio
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2024 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DarrenG wrote:
Dear NeddySeagoon.

Many thanks. I think you are referring to https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Installation_alternatives#Installing_Gentoo_from_an_existing_Linux_distribution, yes?


It is also mentioned in our install handbook starting Installing the Gentoo base system. (used the AMD64 arc as an example)
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2024 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DarrenG,

All those drivers are still in the 6.12.1 kernel.
I have not unpicked the Alpha ISO though. Meanwhile, I suggest you don't use it for your install.
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DarrenG
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2024 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. That suggests that once (if) I get a system working, all shall be well (I hope), and that the problem may rest with what is included in the initrd and/or kernel on the ISO.

Thanks again.

Darren
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2024 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

>> It is also mentioned in our install handbook starting Installing the Gentoo base system. (used the AMD64 arc as an example)

Thanks, yes. The issue is that Alpha has some quirks, like the need to install aboot, which then can only boot an ext2 partition, which that handbook does not cover. It is useful, thanks, but not quote the whole story.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2024 9:21 am    Post subject: Installing in AlphaServer 1200 Reply with quote

Hi. I am trying to use the existing, working Debian 5 installation to do the installation. However, the untar command for the Stage 3 tarball is given as

tar xpvf stage3-*.tar.xz --xattrs-include='*.*' --numeric-owner -C /mnt/gentoo

The problem is that the version of tar on Deb 5 is/was 1.20, and neither tar nor BSD tar from that time work with xattrs. Now, because I cannot boot the Gentoo ISO, I cannot get a live disc environment using a modern disc. NetBSD and OpenBSD boot, but that's a whole other thing that I know almost nothing about. (At this time, as far as I know, my options are Gentoo, NetBSD and OpenBSD for something modern on the Alpha, and I could not get NetBSD to work; there is an unofficial Debian port, but it had firmware issues and last time I tried it even after adding firmware to the installation CD, it still did not work for me.)

Anyway, it's moot, because chroot (as per https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Installation_alternatives#Chrooting) gives me a seg fault. I guess the version of chroot on Debian 5 is very very old.

chroot --help

works ok

chroot /mnt/gentoo

seg faults (as does /bin/sh etc)

chroot /mnt/gentoo /bin/bash

seg faults.

I am afraid with my limited knowledge, I cannot see a way through here. I cannot get a modern ISO to boot, and I suspect the sheer age of Debian 5 is a blocker (even apart from the tar issue above, I had to expand the .tar.xz file to a tar file on a different computer, and then scp it to the Alpha as an uncompressed tar archive; then tar 1.20 could unpack it, apart from the xattrs issue).

Cheerio! Thanks for your advice. Happy to try other things. Maybe there are some boot flags I could pass to the ISO?
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2024 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DarrenG,

I may be able to unpick the Gentoo ISO over the next few days.
I may even be able to boot it in a QEMU virtual machine.

Meanwhile, try #gentoo-alpha on libera IRC. It's quiet as there are not many Alpha users left.
A bug at bugs.gentoo.org describing what happens when you boot the ISO may help too.
If you really want to get in the deep end, install Gentoo elsewhere and build your own Alpha ISO there.
I believe catalyst can use QEMU emulation now. That really is the deep end.

With regards aboot, start a discussion on the Wiki talk page.
The wiki will email page contributors, so the people who can fix it will know.

== edit ==

Before I get too deep into unpicking, the README.txt in the root of the ISO has some potentially useful options.
Code:
doscsi          This loads support for most SCSI controllers.  This is also a
                requirement for booting most USB devices, as they use the SCSI
                subsystem of the kernel.
ide=nodma       This forces the disabling of DMA in the kernel and is required
                by some IDE chipsets and also by some CDROM drives.  If your
                system is having trouble reading from your IDE CDROM, try this
                option.  This also disables the default hdparm settings from
                being executed.
nodetect        This disables all of the autodetection done by the CD,
                including device autodetection and DHCP probing.  This is
                useful for doing debugging of a failing CD or driver.
doload=X        This causes the initial ramdisk to load any module listed, as
                well as dependencies.  Replace X with the module name.
                Multiple modules can be specified by a comma-separated list.
noload=X        This causes the initial ramdisk to skip the loading of a
                specific module that may be causing a problem.  Syntax matches
                that of doload.

doscsi and doload look useful. You need SCSI support and you may need to tell the initrd the modules to load. Look at your lspci output above. Maybe ide=nodma is good too.
There are others.
This list is displayed using one of the function keys as the ISO loads.

== edit some more ==

Looking into boot/gentoo-config

Code:
CONFIG_FB=y
# CONFIG_FB_CIRRUS is not set
may mean that you won't get a console but the LiveCD supports ssh installs too. There is also another kernel that I've not looked at yet.
However ye olde
Code:
CONFIG_VGA_CONSOLE=y
is there.

Code:
CONFIG_PATA_PDC_OLD=m
gets you
Code:
0000:00:03.0 Mass storage controller [0180]: Promise Technology, Inc. PDC20262 (FastTrak66/Ultra66) [105a:4d38] (rev 01)
        Kernel driver in use: Promise_Old_IDE
        Kernel modules: pdc202xx_old
if it loads ...

Code:
CONFIG_SCSI_QLOGIC_1280=m
is for
Code:
0000:01:00.0 SCSI storage controller [0100]: QLogic Corp. ISP1020 Fast-wide SCSI [1077:1020] (rev 02)
        Kernel driver in use: qla1280
        Kernel modules: qla1280


Code:
CONFIG_SCSI_SYM53C8XX_2=m
CONFIG_SCSI_SYM53C8XX_DMA_ADDRESSING_MODE=1
CONFIG_SCSI_SYM53C8XX_DEFAULT_TAGS=16
CONFIG_SCSI_SYM53C8XX_MAX_TAGS=64
CONFIG_SCSI_SYM53C8XX_MMIO=y


Is for
Code:
0001:02:01.0 SCSI storage controller [0100]: LSI Logic / Symbios Logic 53c810 [1000:0001] (rev 02)
        Kernel driver in use: sym53c8xx
        Kernel modules: sym53c8xx


Your network driver is built in too ...
Code:
CONFIG_TULIP=y
# CONFIG_TULIP_MWI is not set
CONFIG_TULIP_MMIO=y


That kernel should work as all the bits are there.
Code:
doload=
may help encourage it.
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DarrenG
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2024 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many thanks. I will try the boot options. Please don't go spending your time on this until I've done that. Being the time of year it is, I have some family things that I'll be doing, so it may take me a while to try some of these things out. I appreciaste your time in this, and don't want to waste it. There cannot be many Alphas out there, and I recognise that.

Thanks for all the advice. I'll see how I get on and report back.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2024 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the way, if you're not already there, please consider joining and lurking in #gentoo-alpha (and possibly some of the other alt-arch #gentoo-* IRC channels). We have quite a small but friendly community there.
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