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Colt45
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 124
Location: Central Washington
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 Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2025 11:02 pm Post subject: GCC and Python timelines |
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Is there a place which shows what the anticipated dates are for things like GCC and python that are critical to the system
For example, Python 3.13 is the current fully supported version.
3.10, 11 and 12 are still available.
When is 10 getting dropped from Gentoo and anyone still on it will have to upgrade?
I ask because Ive begun holding back systems from latest stable due to too many build issues even though they are supposedly stable.
Ive done the same with gcc now too. gcc-14 imo was pushed out too early. I moved to it and then ended up doing a -eav world as part of the update to 23.0 profile and kept encountering packages that wouldnt build. Finally it got to a package I couldnt just skip and I ended up rolling it back to 13 and starting the -eav world all over again as I couldnt find a replacement or fix for that package. So now Im just sticking with 13 on all my machines. How long will I have before I need to upgrade realistically?
Thanks, |
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ian.au
l33t
Joined: 07 Apr 2011
Posts: 612
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2025 12:02 am Post subject: |
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Colt45
| Quote: | Is there a place which shows what the anticipated dates are for things like GCC and python that are critical to the system
For example, Python 3.13 is the current fully supported version.
3.10, 11 and 12 are still available. |
On my stable systems 3:10 hasn't been pulled-in since March 2023. The fact it's supported isn't really relevant.
I can't think of a good reason to keep Python back from stable on gentoo, it's best to go with the dev's on this.
Why not list the packages that you believe require the older version(s) and helpers can perhaps work out why you have problems updating. I haven't really had any trouble (not of my own making) with python or gcc for years.
You know, emerge info, some failed build logs etc.
That may be more helpful in the long run than sweating on upgrades and/or keeping personal overlays for probably unnecessary work-arounds.
All this comes from upstream anyway, then stabilised as required in portage, for gcc ie.
https://gcc.gnu.org/develop.html#timeline |
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Colt45
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 124
Location: Central Washington
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| Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2025 5:31 am Post subject: |
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I dont remember what was having the problem with gcc-14. There was already bugs about them on gentoo bug tracker. I cant find them now, so probably resolved, but I also dont remember what packages so your guess is as good as mine. Im not going to try upgrading to 14 again, Ill just wait until next year or something.
I just switched my PYTHON_TARGETS to 3.11 and 3.12, but left PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET as 3.11 that way Im better positioned when I do let it upgrade later this year. |
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Zucca
Moderator
Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 3939
Location: Rasi, Finland
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| Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2025 6:32 am Post subject: |
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| Colt45 wrote: | | I just switched my PYTHON_TARGETS to 3.11 and 3.12, but left PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET as 3.11 that way Im better positioned when I do let it upgrade later this year. |
In my experience every python related problem practically vanished after I gave up setting those variables. I let Portage set them.
_________________
..: Zucca :..
| My gentoo installs: | init=/sbin/openrc-init
-systemd -logind -elogind seatd |
| Quote: | | I am NaN! I am a man! |
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Hu
Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 23100
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| Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2025 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| As far as I know, Gentoo developers are allowed to assume that systems are reasonably current, so I would not be surprised if the developers marked as stable a package that requires a compiler (such as gcc-14) that itself has been stable for 3+ months at the time the consuming package is changed. I see that a version of gcc-14 went stable amd64 back in November (sys-devel/gcc: Stabilize 14.2.1_p20241116 amd64, #944005). Therefore, I expect that within the next few months, developers might start assuming that amd64 users have and use gcc-14 as the system compiler. Remaining on gcc-13 until 2026 may cause you more problems than you avoid. |
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ian.au
l33t
Joined: 07 Apr 2011
Posts: 612
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2025 6:00 am Post subject: |
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| Colt45 wrote: | I dont remember what was having the problem with gcc-14. There was already bugs about them on gentoo bug tracker. I cant find them now, so probably resolved, but I also dont remember what packages so your guess is as good as mine. Im not going to try upgrading to 14 again, Ill just wait until next year or something.
I just switched my PYTHON_TARGETS to 3.11 and 3.12, but left PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET as 3.11 that way Im better positioned when I do let it upgrade later this year. |
Sorry, I didn't intend to reply and abandon the thread, something else came up at the weekend.
I see Zucca already replied re PYTHON_TARGETS - it's been pretty much redundant to set those for a few years; unless you really need specific versions to maintain/support old code, in which case {more info would be required, you should really know what you're doing}. Did you try to remove the entries from package.use and see how you go?
Looks like I had those set to something similar something around last June when I moved to profile 23.. I assume you are on that, but without emerge --info assumption is the best I can do.
| Code: | gw-01 ~ # ls -l /etc/portage/make.profile
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 81 Jun 5 2024 /etc/portage/make.profile -> ../../var/db/repos/ge
ntoo/profiles/default/linux/amd64/23.0/split-usr/no-multilib |
| Code: | # 20240606 - new default python short term fix
# */* PYTHON_TARGETS: -* python3_11 python3_12
# */* PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET: -* python3_11 |
Unless for something like that, I leave these alone, without entries in package.use (or worse, make.conf), on stable you'll just follow the devs and enjoy a quiet life (IME).
I had no trouble moving to gcc-14 last year, the below is probably more-or-less the recent stabilisation history of that package (+ / - a week, as I only usually update fortnightly):
| Code: | * sys-devel/gcc
Tue May 31 20:01:19 2022 >>> sys-devel/gcc-11.3.0
Fri Dec 23 08:47:07 2022 >>> sys-devel/gcc-11.3.1_p20221209
Sun Feb 19 13:28:49 2023 >>> sys-devel/gcc-12.2.1_p20230121-r1
Mon May 1 10:43:47 2023 >>> sys-devel/gcc-12.2.1_p20230428-r1
Sat Jul 8 22:54:12 2023 >>> sys-devel/gcc-12.3.1_p20230526
Mon Oct 2 16:30:51 2023 >>> sys-devel/gcc-13.2.1_p20230826
Mon Jan 15 10:04:08 2024 >>> sys-devel/gcc-13.2.1_p20230826
Fri Feb 9 11:07:37 2024 >>> sys-devel/gcc-13.2.1_p20240113-r1
Sun Apr 14 11:03:50 2024 >>> sys-devel/gcc-13.2.1_p20240210
Wed Jun 5 07:52:38 2024 >>> sys-devel/gcc-13.2.1_p20240210
Wed Jun 5 11:52:19 2024 >>> sys-devel/gcc-13.2.1_p20240210
Sun Jul 28 11:29:22 2024 >>> sys-devel/gcc-13.3.1_p20240614
Sat Nov 16 12:34:13 2024 >>> sys-devel/gcc-13.3.1_p20241025
Sat Dec 14 12:48:44 2024 >>> sys-devel/gcc-14.2.1_p20241116
Mon Jan 20 20:36:25 2025 >>> sys-devel/gcc-14.2.1_p20241221 |
Gentoo systems are designed for rolling forward, and it gets complicated fast trying to swim against the tide. These are a couple of packages it really is a good idea to keep up to date, but it's your system to administer. |
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logrusx
Advocate
Joined: 22 Feb 2018
Posts: 2700
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| Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2025 6:09 am Post subject: |
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| ian.au wrote: | | Colt45 wrote: | I dont remember what was having the problem with gcc-14. There was already bugs about them on gentoo bug tracker. I cant find them now, so probably resolved, but I also dont remember what packages so your guess is as good as mine. Im not going to try upgrading to 14 again, Ill just wait until next year or something.
I just switched my PYTHON_TARGETS to 3.11 and 3.12, but left PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET as 3.11 that way Im better positioned when I do let it upgrade later this year. |
Sorry, I didn't intend to reply and abandon the thread, something else came up at the weekend.
I see Zucca already replied re PYTHON_TARGETS - it's been pretty much redundant to set those for a few years; unless you really need specific versions to maintain/support old code, in which case {more info would be required, you should really know what you're doing}. Did you try to remove the entries from package.use and see how you go? |
I was going to point out that too. At present time, the only package on my system that has python target 3.11 set is pythong-exec. Everything else is python 3.12 including python single target.
| Colt45 wrote: | | but left PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET as 3.11 that way Im better positioned when I do let it upgrade later this year. |
I don't see what better positioned means. You're artificially holding on to an older version of Python. Unless you have very specific requirements for Python 3.11 as already pointed out, this is not only meaningless but has the potential to cause more headaches in the future.
| Colt45 wrote: | | I couldnt find a replacement or fix for that package. |
Why didn't you ask here, but instead you're asking for GCC and Python timelines? Yes, there are fixes and plenty of those have originated here on the forums.
Best Regards,
Georgi
Last edited by logrusx on Tue Feb 11, 2025 6:53 am; edited 1 time in total |
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sam_
Developer
Joined: 14 Aug 2020
Posts: 2140
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| Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2025 6:41 am Post subject: |
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| GCC 14 was a particularly big change as it started to enforce C99 finally. The breakage has been large but for the best (and a good thing), as the things which were broken were often unsafe. By avoiding stabilisation indefinitely, we end up making the problem worse by having nobody working on it too. It really was kind of a special-case. You had a failure - those happen - we can't say more without knowing what package(s) it was. I would not generalise based on that. |
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Genone
Retired Dev
Joined: 14 Mar 2003
Posts: 9626
Location: beyond the rim
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| Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2025 9:43 am Post subject: Re: GCC and Python timelines |
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| Colt45 wrote: | Is there a place which shows what the anticipated dates are for things like GCC and python that are critical to the system
For example, Python 3.13 is the current fully supported version.
3.10, 11 and 12 are still available.
When is 10 getting dropped from Gentoo and anyone still on it will have to upgrade? |
That is subject to the individual teams. For python see https://projects.gentoo.org/python/guide/interpreter.html#life-cycle-of-a-python-implementation points 6-9 |
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