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Spanik
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 Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2025 10:36 am Post subject: Time for a reinstall and other DE |
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I have been using KDE for many years (must be 20 years now) and always been very happy. But since the forced switch to Wayland I run into more and more issues. So it's time for a complete reinstall and another DE. What would you advise to someone coming from KDE?
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asturm
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| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2025 10:38 am Post subject: |
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Please explain "forced switch to Wayland". X11 session seems to be available just fine.
And most certainly a DE switch does not necessitate reinstall in Gentoo. |
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Spanik
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| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2025 11:29 am Post subject: |
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Last update I needed to enable the Wayland use flag. As until then I always had a general USE flag "-wayland" it was a serious recompile. Since then there is a "Wayland to X11 video bridge" in plasma running. It is also since then that I'm experiencing more and more issues. Going from things that just annoy me (changed scroll behaviour, focus and focus stealing prevention working differently, no session restore anymore) over things that now take far more time than before and locking up response from the pc (Audex being the main culprit here but Dolphin is a lot slower as well) to just stopped working (W10 VM's lock up, REW doesn't start anymore).
I know I don't have to reinstall but since the issues started then I have tried so much changing here and there that I think it will be safer to wipe everything. Just belt-and-braces.
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asturm
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| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2025 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| No one is forcing you to choose a Plasma Wayland session. xwaylandvideobridge is optional. |
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pietinger
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| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2025 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| asturm wrote: | | No one is forcing you to choose a Plasma Wayland session. [...] |
Spanik,
I have also been a happy KDE user for over 20 years (well, there was a time with kde4 ...).
I start KDE with the SDDM. This gives the possibility of a “Plasma(X11)” session ... but so small that I didn't even notice it at first -> at the bottom left 
And I would like to point out that the changeover from 5 to 6 was the smoothest so far ... probably also a success of our great Gentoo KDE developer ... 
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Spanik
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| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2025 11:51 am Post subject: |
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As far as I know I am running an X11 session.
From Kwin info:
| Code: | Output backend
==============
Name: KWin::X11StandaloneBackend
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And from "ps -auxw"
| Code: | ikke 2857 0.0 0.0 7808 3072 tty1 S+ 07:52 0:00 /bin/sh /usr/bin/startx
ikke 2870 0.0 0.0 3924 1920 tty1 S+ 07:52 0:00 xinit /home/ikke/.xinitrc -- /etc/X11/xinit/xserverrc :0 -auth /tmp/serverauth.fWZIOyQFKN
ikke 2871 1.0 0.1 441740 103248 tty1 Sl 07:52 3:05 /usr/bin/X -nolisten tcp -keeptty :0 -auth /tmp/serverauth.fWZIOyQFKN vt1
ikke 2876 0.0 0.0 210308 33792 tty1 Sl 07:52 0:00 startplasma-x11
ikke 2879 0.0 0.0 4412 1152 tty1 S 07:52 0:00 dbus-launch --exit-with-session startplasma-x11
ikke 2880 0.0 0.0 6468 1536 ? Ss 07:52 0:09 /usr/bin/dbus-daemon --syslog --fork --print-pid 5 --print-address 7 --session
ikke 2888 0.0 0.0 210028 33408 tty1 Sl 07:52 0:00 /usr/bin/plasma_session
ikke 2896 0.0 0.0 606928 9944 ? Sl 07:52 0:00 /usr/libexec/xdg-desktop-portal
ikke 2903 0.0 0.0 530360 5760 ? Sl 07:52 0:00 /usr/libexec/xdg-document-portal
ikke 2908 0.0 0.0 306596 5376 ? Sl 07:52 0:00 /usr/libexec/xdg-permission-store
root 2915 0.0 0.0 2412 1536 ? Ss 07:52 0:00 fusermount3 -o rw,nosuid,nodev,fsname=portal,auto_unmount,subtype=portal -- /run/user/1000/doc
ikke 2923 0.0 0.1 520556 74880 ? Sl 07:52 0:00 /usr/libexec/xdg-desktop-portal-kde
ikke 2932 0.0 0.1 4418600 104308 tty1 Sl 07:52 0:03 /usr/bin/kded6
ikke 2938 0.0 0.0 668512 51816 ? Sl 07:52 0:00 /usr/libexec/xdg-desktop-portal-gtk
ikke 2939 0.4 0.2 1530680 161560 tty1 Sl 07:52 1:24 /usr/bin/kwin_x11
ikke 2945 0.0 0.0 229124 4608 ? Sl 07:52 0:00 /usr/libexec/dconf-service
ikke 2952 0.0 0.0 378224 5760 ? Sl 07:52 0:00 /usr/libexec/at-spi-bus-launcher
ikke 2958 0.0 0.0 5656 2688 ? S 07:52 0:00 /usr/bin/dbus-daemon --config-file=/usr/share/defaults/at-spi2/accessibility.conf --nofork --print-address 11 --address=unix:path=/run/u
ikke 2964 0.0 0.0 231484 6528 ? Sl 07:52 0:01 /usr/libexec/at-spi2-registryd --use-gnome-session
polkitd 2984 0.0 0.0 380312 7596 ? Sl 07:52 0:00 /usr/lib/polkit-1/polkitd --no-debug
ikke 3044 0.0 0.1 518308 73344 tty1 Sl 07:52 0:01 /usr/bin/ksmserver
root 3053 0.0 0.0 465716 13056 ? Sl 07:52 0:06 /usr/libexec/udisks2/udisksd
ikke 3063 0.3 0.4 4275580 275528 tty1 Sl 07:52 0:56 /usr/bin/plasmashell
ikke 3064 0.0 0.1 740904 76032 tty1 Sl 07:52 0:00 /usr/libexec/polkit-kde-authentication-agent-1
ikke 3065 0.0 0.1 518760 74880 tty1 Sl 07:52 0:01 /usr/bin/kaccess
ikke 3066 0.0 0.0 219948 20352 tty1 Sl 07:52 0:00 /usr/bin/xembedsniproxy
ikke 3067 0.0 0.1 736600 73344 tty1 Sl 07:52 0:01 /usr/libexec/org_kde_powerdevil
root 3075 0.0 0.0 304316 5760 ? Sl 07:52 0:00 /usr/libexec/upowerd
ikke 3084 0.0 0.0 221836 22272 tty1 Sl 07:52 0:00 /usr/bin/gmenudbusmenuproxy
ikke 3085 0.0 0.1 820960 81408 tty1 Sl 07:52 0:00 /usr/bin/xwaylandvideobridge
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Looks like internally it speaks wayland, pipes it through that bridge and spits out x11. But since this activation of the Wayland flag isn't KDE the same anymore.
| pietinger wrote: | | And I would like to point out that the changeover from 5 to 6 was the smoothest so far ... probably also a success of our great Gentoo KDE developer ... |
Then you can count yourself lucky. I find myself fighting the pc every day now. Each time finding stuff that doesn't work anymore or changed behaviour. I really want to go back to KDE 3...
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NichtDerHans
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Joined: 27 Jan 2023
Posts: 189
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| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2025 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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Ex KDE/Plasma user here. (started with KDE >25y ago)
I use lxqt right now. But there is no need for a reinstall. |
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pietinger
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Location: Bavaria
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| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2025 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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Spanik,
I don't have a running /usr/bin/xwaylandvideobridge and I don't know what needs to be configured to get one (started).
| Code: | root 6969 0.0 0.0 148996 21468 ? Ssl 12:27 0:00 /usr/bin/sddm
root 6977 5.4 0.2 929068 135524 tty7 Ssl+ 12:27 5:04 /usr/bin/X -nolisten tcp -background none -seat seat0 vt7 -auth /run/sddm/xauth_NGojlC -noreset -displayfd 16
root 6978 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? I 12:27 0:00 [kworker/10:0]
sddm 7002 0.0 0.0 4556 1092 ? S 12:27 0:00 dbus-launch --autolaunch d2ce8da235819bc460e79592644aedfa --binary-syntax --close-stderr
sddm 7003 0.0 0.0 6060 1740 ? Ss 12:27 0:00 /usr/bin/dbus-daemon --syslog-only --fork --print-pid 5 --print-address 7 --session
root 7021 0.0 0.0 77440 19696 ? S 12:27 0:00 /usr/libexec/sddm-helper --socket /tmp/sddm-auth-af0f97d2-c837-45d9-aabf-48546eb27dc8 --id 1 --start /usr/bin/startplasma-x11 --user peter
peter 7028 0.0 0.1 1073828 106944 ? SLl 12:27 0:00 /usr/bin/kwalletd6 --pam-login 13 14
peter 7029 0.0 0.0 213532 35056 ? Sl 12:27 0:00 /usr/bin/startplasma-x11
peter 7033 0.0 0.0 4556 1604 ? S 12:27 0:00 /usr/bin/dbus-launch --exit-with-session /usr/bin/startplasma-x11
peter 7034 0.0 0.0 7204 1672 ? Ss 12:27 0:00 /usr/bin/dbus-daemon --syslog --fork --print-pid 5 --print-address 7 --session
peter 7043 0.0 0.0 213456 35128 ? Sl 12:27 0:00 /usr/bin/plasma_session
peter 7054 0.0 0.0 460184 10104 ? Sl 12:27 0:00 /usr/libexec/xdg-desktop-portal
peter 7060 0.0 0.0 531452 5972 ? Sl 12:27 0:00 /usr/libexec/xdg-document-portal
peter 7065 0.0 0.0 307692 5624 ? Sl 12:27 0:00 /usr/libexec/xdg-permission-store
root 7072 0.0 0.0 2552 1936 ? Ss 12:27 0:00 fusermount3 -o rw,nosuid,nodev,fsname=portal,auto_unmount,subtype=portal -- /run/user/1000/doc
peter 7078 0.0 0.1 766452 80284 ? Sl 12:27 0:00 /usr/libexec/xdg-desktop-portal-kde
peter 7088 0.0 0.1 858900 97388 ? Sl 12:27 0:00 /usr/bin/kded6
peter 7117 6.1 0.2 2038632 180640 ? Sl 12:27 5:45 /usr/bin/kwin_x11
peter 7137 0.0 0.0 221876 21388 ? Sl 12:27 0:00 /usr/libexec/kf6/kscreen_backend_launcher
peter 7151 0.0 0.1 764836 77752 ? Sl 12:27 0:00 /usr/bin/ksmserver
peter 7161 0.0 0.1 764556 77704 ? Sl 12:27 0:00 /usr/bin/kaccess
peter 7163 0.0 0.1 982260 77208 ? Sl 12:27 0:00 /usr/libexec/org_kde_powerdevil
peter 7164 0.0 0.1 838192 79840 ? Sl 12:27 0:00 /usr/libexec/polkit-kde-authentication-agent-1
peter 7165 2.5 0.3 2764820 260232 ? Sl 12:27 2:22 /usr/bin/plasmashell
peter 7168 0.0 0.0 687644 52352 ? Sl 12:27 0:00 /usr/bin/xembedsniproxy
peter 7187 0.0 0.1 814824 67868 ? Sl 12:27 0:00 /usr/libexec/kactivitymanagerd
peter 7222 0.0 0.0 688328 52828 ? Sl 12:27 0:00 /usr/bin/gmenudbusmenuproxy
peter 7225 0.0 0.0 715972 63260 ? Sl 12:27 0:00 /usr/libexec/kglobalacceld
peter 7226 0.0 0.1 1140912 111524 ? Sl 12:27 0:01 /usr/bin/kalendarac
peter 7228 0.0 0.0 394780 10392 ? Sl 12:27 0:00 /usr/bin/wireplumber
peter 7230 0.0 0.1 1071660 109408 ? Sl 12:27 0:00 /usr/bin/kmix --keepvisibility
peter 7252 0.0 0.0 103076 6208 ? Sl 12:27 0:00 /usr/bin/pipewire
peter 7341 0.0 0.1 839924 81356 ? Sl 12:27 0:01 /usr/bin/akonadi_control
peter 7362 0.0 0.0 3087040 48528 ? Sl 12:27 0:00 /usr/bin/akonadiserver |
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asturm
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| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2025 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Spanik wrote: | | Looks like internally it speaks wayland, pipes it through that bridge and spits out x11. But since this activation of the Wayland flag isn't KDE the same anymore. |
That's a complete and utter misconception. The sole purpose of this xwaylandvideobridge, which is as I already told you optional, and even obsolete by now, is to allow screen sharing for X depending applications within a Wayland session.
Either you are in an X11 session, or you are in a Wayland session. xwayland only exists for the latter if applications only work in an X specific context.
You are the master of that decision by means of the login manager or manual startup, whatever you have set up. The Wayland USE flag does not affect X runtime, just as the X USE flag does not normally affect tty runtime.
And all that has been communicated by news items in the past. |
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Spanik
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Posts: 1022
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2025 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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| asturm wrote: |
That's a complete and utter misconception. The sole purpose of this xwaylandvideobridge, which is as I already told you optional, and even obsolete by now, is to allow screen sharing for X depending applications within a Wayland session.
Either you are in an X11 session, or you are in a Wayland session. xwayland only exists for the latter if applications only work in an X specific context.
You are the master of that decision by means of the login manager or manual startup, whatever you have set up. The Wayland USE flag does not affect X runtime, just as the X USE flag does not normally affect tty runtime.
And all that has been communicated by news items in the past. |
Ok, then please explain why:
- if I start plasma as X11 and KWin also tell me that it is using X11 output then what is the Xwaylandvideobridge is doing?
- if the use flag does not affect X runtime and AFAIK I have started it as X11, then why is so much behaviour changed or applications not working anymore?
I want to believe it but reality is telling me something different. And just telling that "nothing has changed" isn't solving things either.
If it is solely due to going from plasma 5 to Plasma 6, then it is a sufficient reason to change DE.
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asturm
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| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2025 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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As for xwaylandvideobridge, as I mentioned *repeatedly* it *is* optional so why simply haven't you tried to uninstall it yet? Since you ascribe all kinds of issues to it, I really don't feel the need to spend my time for a "big explanation", yet. Go ahead and remove it.
Nevertheless, in search of a bug I find this:
https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=942943
https://invent.kde.org/system/xwaylandvideobridge/-/merge_requests/21
Please show us:
| Code: | | $ echo $XDG_SESSION_TYPE |
As you seem to be starting your session manually, those of your issues that relate to stuff being "slow" or "take far more time than before and locking up response from the pc" will be coming from there and lack of environment setup that a DM is doing for you, or dbus/elogind misconfiguration, and not in any way related to Plasma let alone Wayland.
And by the way, bug searching is not restricted to developers. Neither is using a search engine to find out more about software that is running, before diving into pure guesswork about what it does or not does. |
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Spanik
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Joined: 12 Dec 2003
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| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2025 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| asturm wrote: | Please show us:
| Code: | | $ echo $XDG_SESSION_TYPE |
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| Code: | ~ $ echo $XDG_SESSION_TYPE
tty
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Used KDM first (which worked) and then SDDM which somehow never got the keyboard right whatever I tried. So I went with "startx".
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asturm
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| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2025 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| ...and that opened you up to that bug. |
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Spanik
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| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2025 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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Could be. But honestly, if you would explain instead of just saying "see, I told so everything is because it is your fault" maybe we could all move on and do more interesting things.
I'm not a programmer, I'm a user. I have no idea what they are going on in those bug reports. So as long as you are not going to really sit down and explain something in a way a normal user can understand this is going nowhere. It's not that I like to be begging here and complaining what is going on. But if there is nothing coming forward other then "you are wrong" then I don't see any other option.
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asturm
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| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2025 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| I've told you something you can do 3 times now. And I can not even start to address anything else for the very vague descriptions you're giving. |
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keekkenen
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Joined: 05 Oct 2024
Posts: 39
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| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2025 9:32 pm Post subject: Re: Time for a reinstall and other DE |
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| Spanik wrote: | | But since the forced switch to Wayland I run into more and more issues. |
I've used plasma with Wayland, no problems (two monitors, steam) since October last year.
The xwaylandvideobridge package was deleted from the system after the portage was updated yesterday.
| Code: | ed@kee ~ $ ps -auxw | grep plasma
root 3174 0.0 0.0 76840 19020 ? S 00:28 0:00 /usr/libexec/sddm-helper --socket /tmp/sddm-auth-27b229b0-4630-4717-879a-f364d89b2923 --id 1 --start /usr/libexec/plasma-dbus-run-session-if-needed /usr/bin/startplasma-wayland --user ed
ed 3198 0.0 0.0 2876 1384 tty7 Ss+ 00:28 0:00 dbus-run-session /usr/bin/startplasma-wayland
ed 3203 0.0 0.0 213736 34180 tty7 Sl+ 00:28 0:00 /usr/bin/startplasma-wayland
ed 3209 0.0 0.0 213408 34580 tty7 Sl+ 00:28 0:00 /usr/bin/plasma_session --no-lockscreen
ed 3458 0.7 0.7 6980340 475308 tty7 Sl+ 00:28 0:05 /usr/bin/plasmashell
ed 6532 0.0 0.0 6932 2352 pts/1 S+ 00:40 0:00 grep --color=auto plasma |
| Code: | ed@kee ~ $ echo $XDG_SESSION_TYPE
wayland |
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pietinger
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Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 5437
Location: Bavaria
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| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2025 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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Hmmm ...
| Spanik wrote: | | [...] But if there is nothing coming forward other then "you are wrong" then I don't see any other option. |
... I interpret this ...
| asturm wrote: | | As for xwaylandvideobridge, as I mentioned *repeatedly* it *is* optional so why simply haven't you tried to uninstall it yet? [...] |
... as a: "Try to do this ->"
| Code: | | # emerge -c xwaylandvideobridge |
Have you done it?
If yes, which problems do you have furthermore?
What I always request if something is not clear: The whole configuration of portage, with:
* emerge --info
* grep -r --exclude-dir=savedconfig --exclude-dir=repos.conf "" /etc/portage
* cat /var/lib/portage/world
(maybe more is needed ... our developers know better than I do)
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