dependecies ? number of programs ?

[Snake007uk]

what i dont understand is when i emerge say xfree, gnome, xchat, epiphany, etc...

why when i do emerge -p world i get liek a 100+ packages, yes i know gnome is made up of many packages etc..
but lets say xchat, ok it needs some libraries, so why not just get the libraries place them in say /lib/

and then when you emerge somehting it checks to see if the library it needs is present in /lib/ and if not gets it otherwise carrryon ?

rather then compile a whole package which has the library ???

can someone please explain this to me ??

Snake
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Snake

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[superjaded]

In programming, there's a concept of "modularization" that is considered a "good thing."
This leads to reuseable code -- which makes less work for both the initial programmer and other programmers down the line who may find the code that initial programmer wrote useful.
With modularization, you have the separation of things -- many times a specific library will depend on OTHER specific libraries for certain function calls that may depend on other libraries for other function calls.

So, if I'm understanding your suggestion correctly (essentially only compiling a specific file from an ebuild, right?), not only would this be REALLY hard to keep track of, it would turn Portage into a mess of specific dependancies and such.

In the case of xchat, on the grand scheme of things, it doesn't have too many dependancies. Definitely no where near 100. Atleast after you get xfree installed.

[Snake007uk]

yes but dont you think all the libraries shouldb e in one big repository so when a pp needs it portage just gets it ? its the same as knwoing which program covers which dependency, so the way this would work is all libraries would be stored on local mirror, when portage compiles it just checks the ebuld for required libraries, and gets them.

yes in the case of xchat it needs gtk libraries and also Xfree to actualy display teh gui image, but that does not mean they should be compiled because they are needed, but when compiling something for example k3b, i only want k3b so why is xcdroast i believe it is also compiled ?? only packages taht arenned shoukld be compiled otherwise if only a library is need then the library downloaded, this would save space on user hard disk, and be much better.

i mean correct me if im wrong but it terms of windows, its like saying if you want MIRC, you have to compile windows (as you would need Xserver and Desktop environment, which makes sense, also i can understand the apckages that come with the DE), but then say if MIRC needs a DLL file which comes with say MS office, it compiles MS office ? dont you find that silly ?? should it just get the library rather then get the whole office package.

modularization is a good idea, but then having a library repositart IMO is better aswell, dont you agree ? yes and if library depends on another library, then why not just get that library, can you imagine the time saved in downloading also with compiling just one library rather then whole package?
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Snake

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[Carlo]

[Snake007uk]

sorry about my english :s

its i get a bit excited when i type so i do alot of typo's will check next time sorry.

also, i understand what you are saying about the use flags, but why does this change the fact about getting libraries direct rather then getting the whole application ?

e.g

application A needs --->libraray A
|
|
needs library B



so what portage would do is get those libraries from trhe repository, and compile them and then compile the program, no need to get a whole application for just one library ?

when a use flag is added the ebuild looks for that library and tells portage about it again poratge gets the library ?

am i actually missing something isnt this a better idea ?
can a develpoer please explain to me why they think this isnt a good idea?

if the library is already located in /lib (this is justa suggestion path doesnt have to be here) then portage doesnt need to get it the app can access it directly ?

im not suggesting that everything should be changed i just want to know why this wasnt thought of or if it was why linux apps didnt go this way ?
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Snake

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[Stormy Eyes]

[Snake007uk]

lol ok that not what im thinking about think of it this way, you as a developer make an application lets say a cd burning app ok. now your library is the first of its kind and chances are andother burning app will use it to carry out the task of burning so you just upload to a library repository, just like having app repository.

so now when the developer need to look for that library they can get it easily, when you emerge the program the developer doesnt need to put it with the rest of the program he can tell portage to get it from the repository, and portage would first check if this library is already installed if so it will just use that otherwise, it will get it.

the ONLY problem i could see is where the same library would want to be compiled with different USE flags and so you would need two copies of the library etc.. i would assume, i am not a developer as such so i wouldnt know, but sure there could be something like this.

dont you think this is a good idea?? just want opinions
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Snake

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[floffe]

Portage does do that right? If I have have xfree and gnome installed, and want kde, it doesn't make me re-emerge xfree (unless there has been an update)?

Or for your cd-burning example, today I emerged xcdroast. As I already had cdrtools, it was just one or two dependencies I nedded. I don't really get your point?

[Stormy Eyes]

[Carlo]

[Snake007uk]

No im not uptight i was just "wondering" why ?? so i thought id ask, im not trying to change things, i just wanted to know something.


carlo:

if Application B need library A and B then, when you emerge Application B, portage would see that they are already there in /lib.

im not sure if im not explaining my self properly or something but let me think this through properly.

most application depend on other libraries, so now what im saying is RATHER the emerge a package (program) which contain those libraries why not just get the libraries needed ?

also another note to people I MY-SELF have run many distro's and Gentoo being my favourite the ONLY bad point which si going to be fixed is that the fact there is no "emerge security-updates" other then that i have used emerge know how it works and dont consider my self a noob, please dont flame me, i havent flamed anyone, its just a thought i had and thought id ask people in this forum.

e.g IF you want k3b why do u get xcdroast ? all you wanted in K3B, i understand that k3b also need Xfree to run because its a gui app which makes sense, but when a app needs a library WHY get a WHOLE PACKAGE.

so in my case all the libraries on the system would be placed in one place say /lib which every package would check against to see if any libraries needed are present.

hope this make sense now ??
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Snake

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[Carlo]