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| Do you use Linux just as a way of wasting time and screwing around? |
| Yeah, Linux is just a toy for me. |
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31% |
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| No! Linux is useful and productive! |
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[ 348 ] |
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| Total Votes : 509 |
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napoleonb
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Posts: 141
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 Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| viperlin wrote: | may i recomend ssh instead of ftp? just download WinSCP or something and keep it on a floppy/usb key  allways usefull |
I use Putty as a remote console when I am in Windows. It has only one small file (no dlls), it does not write anything in the registry (unless you save the key) and it is free!
But can you tell me how do you manage to transfer files from the remote computer to the local computer via ssh? I always thought that ssh was only a secured telnet. |
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viperlin
Veteran
Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 1319
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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the command scp or for windows the program WinSCP (small too), you can forward graphical programs over ssh with X forwarding and even forward ports with it. (graphical programs are Linux > Linux only)
SCP used like this:
scp file.txt username@host:/path/to/directory/
(asks for password here) |
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caspar
Apprentice
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Posts: 228
Location: 240 000 miles away from moon
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I agree with you that some manufacturers like Nvidia are cool to offer Linux support. But, unlike software companies, they can sell there products to Linux users. People are generally more affraid to go in a store and steal hardware (like a video card, for instance) than download pirated software over the Internet. And I have yet to see a software company successfully sell their products to Linux users. Ever heard of Corel or Oracle? |
Well this might be right in some cases. Linux users are used to get their stuff free. But maybe this will change when Linux is also accepted as a desktop os and many people work with it. Ever heard of a private User (student for example) who bought his MsOffice his Windows or his Photoshop. I think you can't generalise that way.
Reading your other replies it seems to me that you were a frustrated Linux user who got nothing working switched to Windows again and now you are a bit pissed of these other people who praise their Linux that much.
Just my opinion.
I use also sftp (ftp ssh client) from far away. I just have to open my konqueror and type "sftp://URL" and everything works.
I think also you can use Openoffice for productive working. I cannot imagine a feature I'm missing at the moment except of the spellchecking perhaps .
If you need these featuree you can buy cross- office.
I do not think this discussion comes to an end because everyone has made his decision and is not willing to change it (including me).
For me the most convincing pros of Linux are:
-To get as deep as you can into the OS without needing to cross artificial barricades (like in Windows)
- Not to use Microsoft and so not to help them conquering the world (think of it!)
- To get everything for free (Student -> not much money)
- Not to get spied out by micorsoft.
- To get repaired everything without the need to reinstall the whole os
Sorry about the faults. Must be "productive" now 
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"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today."
Last edited by caspar on Sun Jan 25, 2004 6:07 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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napoleonb
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Posts: 141
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| viperlin wrote: | the command scp or for windows the program WinSCP (small too), you can forward graphical programs over ssh with X forwarding and even forward ports with it. (graphical programs are Linux > Linux only)
SCP used like this:
scp file.txt username@host:/path/to/directory/
(asks for password here) |
Ok then. I never heard of WinSCP before so I went to there website and guess what I read:
| Quote: | | "WinSCP is an open source SFTP (SSH File Transfer Protocol) and SCP (Secure CoPy) client for Windows using SSH (Secure SHell). Its main function is safe copying of files between a local and a remote computer. Beyond this basic function, WinSCP manages some other actions with files." |
As a see it, it is still a file transfer protocol. When I mentionned ftp, I was merely suggesting using a file transfer protocol in a general way (as opposed to remote desktoping). I would have hoped that nobody would have expected me to give every single way of transfering files from one computer to another.  |
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viperlin
Veteran
Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 1319
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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| or shfs for a more permanent connection (gftp also supports ftp style ssh) |
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viperlin
Veteran
Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 1319
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| napoleonb wrote: | | viperlin wrote: | the command scp or for windows the program WinSCP (small too), you can forward graphical programs over ssh with X forwarding and even forward ports with it. (graphical programs are Linux > Linux only)
SCP used like this:
scp file.txt username@host:/path/to/directory/
(asks for password here) |
Ok then. I never heard of WinSCP before so I went to there website and guess what I read:
| Quote: | | "WinSCP is an open source SFTP (SSH File Transfer Protocol) and SCP (Secure CoPy) client for Windows using SSH (Secure SHell). Its main function is safe copying of files between a local and a remote computer. Beyond this basic function, WinSCP manages some other actions with files." |
As a see it, it is still a file transfer protocol. When I mentionned ftp, I was merely suggesting using a file transfer protocol in a general way (as opposed to remote desktoping). I would have hoped that nobody would have expected me to give every single way of transfering files from one computer to another. |
cource not but ftp servers are known to be insecure especially because they send the password as plain text. just letting you know about things like ssh and scp and shfs as people still are not aware of them and how usefull they can be |
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Promit
Guru
Joined: 15 Nov 2003
Posts: 344
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| caspar wrote: |
I think also you can use Openoffice for productive working. I cannot imagine a feature I'm missing at the moment except of the spellchecking perhaps . |
Um...spellchecking has been in OOo for a long time, in quite a lot of languages 
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Windows, Linux, whatever. |
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napoleonb
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Posts: 141
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| caspar wrote: | | Well this might be right in some cases. Linux users are used to get their stuff free. But maybe this will change when Linux is also accepted as a desktop os and many people work with it. Ever heard of a private User (student for example) who bought his MsOffice his Windows or his Photoshop. I think you can't generalise that way. |
Why would people who use a piece of software without having a second thought about having to pay for it change all of a sudden? Lots of people use RedHat, but I have never seen a single store sell a RedHat box (although there are a few copies on the shelves). Neither have I heard or read about people paying RedHat for the support they offer.
I also was a student once (well, maybe twice). And software companies have "educational licences". For instance, at one point, I paid 90$ for Visual C++ and it came bundled with Windows NT workstation. I admit that an "educational licence" on a developpment tool does not allow you to sell the software you create with it, but at that time it was not a concern for me. And, because of the educational prices on it I also bought every single version of CorelDraw from 1 to 8 (Version 8 cost me 80$, for god's sake).
| caspar wrote: | | Reading your other replies it seems to me that you were a frustrated Linux user who got nothing working switched to Windows again and now you are a bit pissed of these other people who praise their Linux that much. |
I was sometimes frustrated about things in Linux in the past and I still am sometimes frustrated about some aspect as I am also frustrated about things in Windows. But if, instead of just concentrating on the points that were making you hiss, you read all that I wrote, you would have seen that I run a Gentoo server (it is running as we speak with a pretty decent up-time) and that I am happy with it. I do not have enough money to buy licences for any MS server solution nor the will to do it. Many of the server services in Windows, although "wizzard-driven" installed, are more complicated to manage than their Linux counterparts. Making a well configured DHCP server in Gentoo is a matter of minutes. Same goes for the DNS server, Firewall services (if you have the IPTABLES command backed up somewhere anyway), Web server services and so on.
But this thread is about INDIVIDUAL PRODUCTIVITY! |
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napoleonb
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Posts: 141
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Promit wrote: | | caspar wrote: |
I think also you can use Openoffice for productive working. I cannot imagine a feature I'm missing at the moment except of the spellchecking perhaps . |
Um...spellchecking has been in OOo for a long time, in quite a lot of languages |
There is a spellchecker for French in OO, but my seven year old nephew would make less mistakes than OO if I gave him a document to check.  |
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viperlin
Veteran
Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 1319
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| i've never had a problem with spellchecker in Openoffice |
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caspar
Apprentice
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Posts: 228
Location: 240 000 miles away from moon
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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Talking about individual productivity it can't even get better for me. I stopped playing games the more I used Linux and so there is plenty of new time to be productive
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"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." |
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caspar
Apprentice
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Posts: 228
Location: 240 000 miles away from moon
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| viperlin wrote: | | i've never had a problem with spellchecker in Openoffice |
Maybe I was just too lazy until now. I'll give it a try when I use it again
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"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." |
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napoleonb
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Posts: 141
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| viperlin wrote: | | i've never had a problem with spellchecker in Openoffice |
Here is an example you should test:
In French, when you say "Hi" to someone, you say "Salut". And what does OOwriter suggests when you make a typo and write "Salus" instead of "Salut"? It gives you "Luttas" which means "wrestled". Maybe close, but certainly no cigar.  |
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viperlin
Veteran
Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 1319
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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i got an E in french but i could do better than that :-\
anyway i only use it for english (the real english, not the stolen american one in which people spell thing incorrectly and call it correct ) and that works fine so it suits me, and it does not crash on me unlike Word 2000 kept doing on the day my courcework needed to be handed in. 17 times  |
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lat3ncy
n00b
Joined: 17 Sep 2003
Posts: 30
Location: Manchester, UK
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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I waste a lot of time in Windows but I can waste that same time in linux, except I can emerge -u world in the process
As for actually working though I still have to stick with MS Office. I'm still uncertain about using Linux office software for my coursework after a nasty experience using a, now out of date, version of Abiword for an important document. At the time, Windows and Linux editions of Abiword's file format seemed to be different and the Windows version wouldn't render the document properly after saving on exactly the same version in Linux. I needed to print from Windows as I've never been able to get Linux to print and unfortunately it scared the hell out of me as to not try it again to this day! 
Maybe one day... |
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Crg
Guru
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 345
Location: London
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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| caspar wrote: | | Reading your other replies it seems to me that you were a frustrated Linux user |
I wouldn't say linux user: | napoleonb wrote: | | the only thing I ever did for a period longer than ten consecutive minutes on Linux beside installing and configuring it is play Quake3 |
He is just on here trying to argue about something he clearly doesn't have the faintest clue about.
The amount of things napoleonb has manage to get incorrect in the amount of typing done is nothing short of amazing - whether it be technical such as confusion over X or operating system structure, to thinking valid words such as "learnt" aren't, to thinking I'm english, to trying to tell people who use linux productively all day that they can't be productive... he has to be just trolling. |
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Crg
Guru
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 345
Location: London
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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| napoleonb wrote: | | opposed to remote desktoping). I would have hoped that nobody would have expected me to give every single way of transfering files from one computer to another. |
No but on a forum like this they would expect you to give a decent way of file copying. |
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Crg
Guru
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 345
Location: London
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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| napoleonb wrote: | | But this thread is about INDIVIDUAL PRODUCTIVITY! |
And people have said that they are productive in linux. |
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viperlin
Veteran
Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 1319
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Crg you could have done that in 1 post me thinks you are postcount whoring |
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Crg
Guru
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 345
Location: London
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:20 am Post subject: |
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| viperlin wrote: | | Crg you could have done that in 1 post me thinks you are postcount whoring |
You're right I could have done that in one post - but if I did that - how would I ever catch up to your post count? (hey and this is one more yay!)
It was more that I was reading other threads at the same time - I'll try a better anticipatory "post combining" scheme in the future. |
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viperlin
Veteran
Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 1319
Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:23 am Post subject: |
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| Trust me once you become a Veteran posts loose point i mainly hang around the unanswered posts section now looking for ones i can answer. |
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Crg
Guru
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 345
Location: London
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:55 am Post subject: |
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| viperlin wrote: | | Trust me once you become a Veteran posts loose point i mainly hang around the unanswered posts section now looking for ones i can answer. |
After you pointed it out I thought it looked messy and was going to go back and cut 'n paste them into one, but it doesn't appear I could then delete the extras  Not worried about my post count. |
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viperlin
Veteran
Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 1319
Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 1:01 am Post subject: |
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| you can oly delete your post if it's the last post in the thread. prevents confusion |
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napoleonb
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Posts: 141
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 2:40 am Post subject: |
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I said that i would stop arguing with crg but I felt I had to respond to him again due to his condescending attitude. I honestly think that I did not show much ignorance so far in contrast to what that guy said the only time he tried to show us that he knew something about anything:
| crg wrote: | First you have the OS - in the case of the latest windows this is the latest incarnation of the NT kernel, in linux's case it's linux.
Next you have the window toolkits - with windows it's the Win32 GDI, with linux it's depends of what you have decided (or had decided for you) installed, ie KDE libs, Gnome libs, etc... |
GDI is clearly not the window toolkit because there is no such thing as a "window toolkit" in Windows. You have the Windows API which is a bunch of C functions spreaded over many dlls (kernel32, user32, gdi, etc.) and which includes the GDI (and the MFCs are just a bunch of classes on top of the API that anyone wanting to go OOP could use). And what exactly is the GDI? Let me explain it in kindergarden terms (especially for crg):
| Quote: | | ...To help with drawing on the Windows operating system, Microsoft created the Graphical Device Interface, abbreviated as GDI. It is a set of functions, variables, and constants that group all or most of everything you need to draw on an application. The GDI is provided as a library called Gdi.dll and is already installed on every computer that runs Windows... |
I just hope that QT and GTK are more than drawing toolkits. And do those things not work on top of XLib?
| crg wrote: | | No but on a forum like this they would expect you to give a decent way of file copying. |
ftp is so indecent that it was never used in the 70's, 80's, 90's and in the 21st century. And there is no RFC written about it. And it is not a convention that port 21 is reserved for ftp. In fact why would a the group of people dedicated to write standards would even consider including ftp in them and reserve a port for it? And there are not a dozen of ftp servers that you can install in Linux. And Gentoo does not use ftp in its emerge process (wget, anyone?).
If someone's knowledge of the ftp is that it is used to download indecent gay porn over the Internet, well maybe that person should shut up when it is not his turn to talk.
| crg wrote: | | And people have said that they are productive in linux. |
Of course, but except for one artist, one CAD programmer and some kids, nobody, including you, said what for. Web browsing in itself can hardly be considered a "productive" activity. |
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caspar
Apprentice
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Posts: 228
Location: 240 000 miles away from moon
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 8:16 am Post subject: |
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| napoleonb wrote: |
ftp is so indecent that it was never used in the 70's, 80's, 90's and in the 21st century. And there is no RFC written about it. And it is not a convention that port 21 is reserved for ftp. In fact why would a the group of people dedicated to write standards would even consider including ftp in them and reserve a port for it? And there are not a dozen of ftp servers that you can install in Linux. And Gentoo does not use ftp in its emerge process (wget, anyone?).
If someone's knowledge of the ftp is that it is used to download indecent gay porn over the Internet, well maybe that person should shut up when it is not his turn to talk. |
Ftp is used for anonymus file transfer and that is the only thing it is good for. If you want to use user accounts and passwords ftp is not the way to go because your server could easily be hacked. As mentioned before FTP uses plain-text passwords over the net.
Exactly at this point you should use ssh with its sftp client, because passwords are encrypted and the next proxy can't guess what you are transmitting.
| napoleonb wrote: |
| crg wrote: | | And people have said that they are productive in linux. |
Of course, but except for one artist, one CAD programmer and some kids, nobody, including you, said what for. Web browsing in itself can hardly be considered a "productive" activity. |
What do you want to hear? People in this forum tell you that they are working with Linux in different ways but you do not accept it. It should be clear to you that Linux is not yet a dummy os. You have to be interested in what you are doing (ok suse and redhat are doing everything to proof the opposite but it takes time). It's just the beginning. It takes some time. Maybe in 5-10 years it is completely different? Who knows? Maybe everybody is using Linux then. Microsoft has done everything that people only understand their Windows. So this is not just a one-day-switch-thing .
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