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Grathol
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Joined: 08 Nov 2003
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 Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2004 2:38 pm Post subject: X and Window Managers |
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Hi,
I've been poking around a bit and realized that nothing quite answers my question, so I figure this might be a good place to try and get the definitive "guide" to X and window managers. What I'll do is outline my current understanding and then pose my few questions (feel free to correct any of my assumptions if they're wrong):
-X provides an interface to the hardware that is utilized by window managers which actually control the placement of items and "preferences" (such as volume controls, control panel stuff, etc.)
-KDE and Gnome are window managers
Now, to the uncertainties:
Is it possible to run both KDE and Gnome on the same machine?
Are enlightenment, fluxbox, and the like also window managers? Or do they require KDE/Gnome to run on top of? The reason this confuses me is because metacity (a window manager if I'm not mistaken) seems to run on top of Gnome...
How do you change which desktop environment is started when "startx" is run? (i.e. select between KDE, Gnome, fluxbox, etc.)
I'm sure I have some more questions, but this should be enough to hopefully get me started on understanding the basics. Thanks! |
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zojas
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Joined: 22 Apr 2002
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
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| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2004 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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gnome & kde are desktop managers, not window managers. they are large projects with lots of components designed to create a full-blown cohesive environment. each includes a window manager (kde: kwin, gnome: metacity). xfce is another desktop manager environment
enlightenment, fluxbox, kahakai, and hundreds of others are window managers, designed to add decorations to windows (minimize buttons, borders) and place them on the screen and allow you to move them around. then you have to run other apps with them to actually do any work.
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ralph
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Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Posts: 2001
Location: Hamburg
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| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2004 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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KDE and Gnome are Desktop Enviroments. They run on top of a windowmanager.
It's of course possible to run gnome and kde on the same machine and you define what is started by startx in a file called .xinitrc in your home directory.
Take a look at the gentoo desktop guide for more information:
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/desktop.xml
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Grathol
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Joined: 08 Nov 2003
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2004 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| zojas wrote: | | gnome & kde are desktop managers, not window managers. they are large projects with lots of components designed to create a full-blown cohesive environment. each includes a window manager (kde: kwin, gnome: metacity). xfce is another desktop manager environment |
Aha - thanks for pointing out that error in my assumption.
| zojas wrote: | | enlightenment, fluxbox, kahakai, and hundreds of others are window managers, designed to add decorations to windows (minimize buttons, borders) and place them on the screen and allow you to move them around. then you have to run other apps with them to actually do any work. |
OK, that makes sense. I guess that reduces my questions now to the following:
What needs to be done in order to switch window managers for your desktop environment? I recall reading that in Gnome you can "killall metacity" and then run something else (like"fluxbox &") but I don't think that that change is permanent...
And, secondly, how do you select which desktop environment is started when you run startx? |
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zojas
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Joined: 22 Apr 2002
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| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2004 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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you can have both kde & gnome installed on a system.
to select which one you want, the easiest way is to create a shell script called ~/.xinitrc
the idea is that you run some x clients in the background, then run your window manager (or environment). when the window manager or environment exits, then the X server will shut down.
so to run blackbox, you might have an .xinitrc which looks like this:
| Code: |
#!/bin/bash
bbmail -w&
xterm &
exec blackbox
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notice I put all the x clients in the background, but I didn't put blackbox in the background, but exec'd it. the Xserver is waiting for the xinitrc script to exit. when it does, the x server will quit. I exec'd blackbox so that the blackbox process will overlay the shell process running the script so you save one process. then when blackbox exits, the X server will exit.
for kde:
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#!/bin/bash
exec startkde
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if you run gdm or kdm (graphical logins) you can select some environments through a drop down menu, or you can have it run your .xinitrc by picking 'xsession'. sometimes I use the graphical login, sometimes I run 'startx' but either way I get the same setup.
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shm
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Joined: 09 Dec 2002
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Location: Atlanta, Universe
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| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2004 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Grathol wrote: |
What needs to be done in order to switch window managers for your desktop environment? I recall reading that in Gnome you can "killall metacity" and then run something else (like"fluxbox &") but I don't think that that change is permanent... |
for KDE, to set the window manager permantely, just put KDEWM="windowmanager" in one of your profile files.
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zojas
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| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2004 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Grathol wrote: |
What needs to be done in order to switch window managers for your desktop environment? I recall reading that in Gnome you can "killall metacity" and then run something else (like"fluxbox &") but I don't think that that change is permanent...
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it wouldn't be, you'd have to dig into the gnome preferences somewhere to have gnome run another window manager.
one thing to think about, you can run kde apps & gnome apps without running the full-blown environment. so you could just set up your .xinitrc file with fluxbox and then run whatever gnome apps you want, either as x clients in your .xinitrc or from the fluxbox menu whenever you want or even by hand after you log in.
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maxcow
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 04 Jul 2003
Posts: 126
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| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2004 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Grathol escreveu:
What needs to be done in order to switch window managers for your desktop environment? I recall reading that in Gnome you can "killall metacity" and then run something else (like"fluxbox &") but I don't think that that change is permanent...
it wouldn't be, you'd have to dig into the gnome preferences somewhere to have gnome run another window manager. |
if you choose Gnome, there's an option called "Save session automatically"
if you choose that option and do a killall metacity followed by fluxbox & (or any other WM), it will be saved and the next login will use fluxbox (or the one you chose). |
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Desktop Environments
