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Timothy L. Miller
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Joined: 24 Jul 2002
Posts: 5
Location: MD, USA
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 Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2002 4:42 pm Post subject: Gentoo locks up during install |
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Okay, I've tried installing Gentoo 3 times. The first time, I did something wrong, it didn't like it. The second time, I got to emerging the kernel, then it locked up on me. The third, I was in the middle of editing my /etc/fstab when it locked up on me.
My specs are:
AMD Athlon (t-bird core) 1333 MHz
512 MB PC133 SDRAM
ATI All-In-Wonder Radeon 7500
Soundblaster Live!
Western Digital 20 GB hard drive
Creative 52x cdrom
LG 8/12/8/32 dvd-cdrom combo drive
Realtek 8139 nic
I know it's not the hardware. I successfully ran Libranet 2.0, Slackware 8.1, Mandrake 8.2/9b1/9b2/9b3, Red Hat 7.3, Windows 98, Windows 2000, Windows XP on this machine. In windows, I did the Hot CPU Tester Pro (100% cpu usage)for 12 hours, and it never got above 143 degrees, during idle, it runs only 134 degrees. None of the other OS's have had ANY problems installing or running. I'd really like to try out Gentoo, but this is getting really annoying. Anyone have any ideas?
If it's important, I completely repartitioned and then formatted my hard drive before trying to do the third install of gentoo, since I read that if you tried to install xfs over reiserfs, it could cause problems, even though I've never used reiserfs, I figured better safe than sorry.
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Timothy L. Miller
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"Lady luck is a hooker, and I'm fresh out of cash." |
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klieber
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Joined: 17 Apr 2002
Posts: 3657
Location: San Francisco, CA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2002 4:50 pm Post subject: Re: Gentoo locks up during install |
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| Timothy L. Miller wrote: | | None of the other OS's have had ANY problems installing or running. |
I've installed at least 10 other operating systems and/or distros on my box -- none of them were as hard on the hardware as Gentoo is. You're compiling everything from scratch which places a heavy load not only on your CPU, but also your hard drive, RAM, mobo, etc. Thus, the overall ambient temperature of your case interior tends to be much higher than in a simple CPU stress test.
I say this, because from everything you've described, it sounds like heat problems. 143 degrees (Fahrenheit, one hopes) is still pretty toasty, even for a Tbird. Have you tried installing with the cover off of your computer? You can also try placing a regular room fan on the side of the (open) case during install and let the air blow over the entire system.
If you still have problems, then I'd agree it's probably not a heat issue. However, don't discount that until you've done some more testing. Gentoo is really a beast on hardware.
--kurt
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2002 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| As I said, I ran Hot CPU tester. THis places a 100% load on the processor for 12 hours straight. THis is much heavier load than compiling for 3-6 hours. That's like trying to compile for 12 hours. If it didn't overheat then (the t-bird is rated to 170 farenheit), then it wouldn't be overheating doing LESS work now. |
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klieber
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Joined: 17 Apr 2002
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Location: San Francisco, CA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2002 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Anonymous wrote: | | As I said, I ran Hot CPU tester. THis places a 100% load on the processor for 12 hours straight. |
As I said, that's not the same as compiling.
| Anonymous wrote: | | THis is much heavier load than compiling for 3-6 hours. That's like trying to compile for 12 hours. |
No, it isn't.
| Anonymous wrote: | | If it didn't overheat then (the t-bird is rated to 170 farenheit), then it wouldn't be overheating doing LESS work now. |
It's not doing less work. It's doing more. HOT CPU tester stresses the CPU. Compiling puts stress on the CPU, RAM, motherboard, hard drive, etc. The cumulative effect of all of these components working together raises the ambient temperature of the inside of your case several degrees.
As I said, simply placing a room fan in front of your open case will quickly determine whether or not heat is really the issue.
If it turns out to not be a heat issue, then it's a hardware issue of some sort -- either bad hardware or the wrong driver interfacing with a piece of hardware.
--kurt
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2002 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| ANyone that doesn't have blinders on have any ideas? |
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craftyc
Guru
Joined: 23 May 2002
Posts: 443
Location: Behind You.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2002 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Anonymous wrote: | | ANyone that doesn't have blinders on have any ideas? |
Have you tried kliebers solution? He may be correct. | Timothy L. Miller wrote: | | I figured better safe than sorry |
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rac
Bodhisattva
Joined: 30 May 2002
Posts: 6553
Location: Japanifornia
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2002 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Anonymous wrote: | | ANyone that doesn't have blinders on have any ideas? |
That's a cheap shot. In my experience, when you alienate people who are trying to help you, pretty soon you will discover that nobody wants to try.
There is a reason why this is in the FAQ - and no, klieber didn't write it.
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rommel
Veteran
Joined: 19 Apr 2002
Posts: 1145
Location: Williamsburg Virginia
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2002 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| yeah that was a cheap shot and it may be something other then the cpu overheating....this is definatly harwared related no matter what you have had running on this machine before trying to install gentoo....i ahve installed gentoo atleast 20 times on different platforms and had a lock up due to irq conflict , never heat though but i come from an overclocking start with computers so everything is loud and well cooled. |
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2002 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| I didn't get segfaults. It just locked up. And I've thouroughly tested this cpu/mobo/ram combo, and there is no compatibility problems. The RAM is on the mobo's "recommended" list (crucial 2x256 PC133). I haven't done any overclocking...in fact, I UNDERCLOCKED this processor because I didn't like how hot it ran (previously 140/152) when at it's correct speed, thus increasing it's stability. I have used every common testing procedure, Hot CPU Tester Pro, 3dmark2001SE, sysmark 2002, fresh diagnose. Not to mention that I wasn't compiling at the time it locked up, I was editing a file, it hadn't been compiling for several minutes. And if it could get through compiling the system, and then the kernel, without problem, then when it was in idle and cooling down, it locks up? I know computer hardware (x86) better than probably 90% of the people in the world, and this computer is stable...it has NEVER locked up due to hardware problems (not resulting from trying to overclock my video card too far in windows)since I've built it, in ANY OS, under ANY condition. |
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pjp
Administrator
Joined: 16 Apr 2002
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2002 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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Good Luck.
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Timothy L. Miller
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Joined: 24 Jul 2002
Posts: 5
Location: MD, USA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2002 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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I just noticed that it doesn't log me in automatically (forgot that mark) and allows guest posts...the guest posts (to this point) in here were my posts. Sorry for any confusion this may have caused (although I doubt it did).
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Timothy L. Miller
"Treachery will get you everything."
"Lady luck is a hooker, and I'm fresh out of cash." |
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rac
Bodhisattva
Joined: 30 May 2002
Posts: 6553
Location: Japanifornia
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2002 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Anonymous wrote: | | And if it could get through compiling the system, and then the kernel, without problem, then when it was in idle and cooling down, it locks up? |
Lots of times, corrupted memory (whether the fault of the RAM itself, CPU, mobo or other) will not affect you until some time after, until the next time that you actually try to access that page.
| Quote: | | I know computer hardware (x86) better than probably 90% of the people in the world, and this computer is stable... |
Well, then you probably know it better than I do. But what was that you were saying about blinders again?
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klieber
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Joined: 17 Apr 2002
Posts: 3657
Location: San Francisco, CA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2002 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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The reason everyone is pointing at your hardware is because that, based on the troubleshooting information you've given us (random lockups, no common software program involved across all lockups) that is the classic definition of a hardware problem.
Note that when I say "hardware problem" that also encompasses driver problems, b0rked kernel configs, etc -- anything that interacts with the hardware at the kernel level.
Since you are so adamantly opposed to any suggestion that your problems are, in fact, related to hardware, perhaps you can offer some additional troubleshooting information that will shed light upon other areas where the problem may lie.
--kurt
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Last edited by klieber on Tue Aug 27, 2002 7:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Timothy L. Miller
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Joined: 24 Jul 2002
Posts: 5
Location: MD, USA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2002 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| klieber wrote: | The reason everyone is pointing at your hardware is because that, based on the troubleshooting information you've given us (random lockups, no common software program involved across all lockups) that is the classical definition of a hardware problem.
Note that when I say "hardware problem" that also encompasses driver problems, b0rked kernel configs, etc -- anything that interacts with the hardware at the kernel level.
Since you are so adamantly opposed to any suggestion that your problems are, in fact, related to hardware, perhaps you can offer some additional troubleshooting information that will shed light upon other areas where the problem may lie.
--kurt |
No. I'm simply saying that it's NOT overheating. If it's bad drivers, kernel config, irq conflicts, that's all possible. But I have no idea how to find out in gentoo if such things are happening. That's why I posted. The only thing the first post was willing to suggest was too much heat, which I know it isn't. If someone is willing to tell me how to find out if a driver is locking up, or maybe some irq's are conflicting for it, then I'd be more than happy to try, but that's not STRICTLY hardware, it's interaction between hardware and software, which I'm more than willing to admit I have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to such things as kernels. That's what happened on the first install. I F---ed my kernel, and upon restart I got kernel panics. If it would help, I kept the default settings for the kernel, adding support for whatever I needed, and changing the processor to be the correct one. Everything in the kernel I compiled except my sound card I compiled into it, that I did as a module(I've had bad luck in past compiling support for my sound card).
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Timothy L. Miller
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"Lady luck is a hooker, and I'm fresh out of cash." |
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Vanquirius
Retired Dev
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 1297
Location: Ethereal plains
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2002 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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In my experience this type of lock-up is RAM related, although as people pointed out, with the information given it could be pretty much anything.
You might want to check your memory... Maybe even taking it out and placing it back in your memory slot? I solved a similar problem on my Gentoo box just by doing this simple procedure, because the RAM module wasn't really that well placed.
You may also want to verify your IRQ settings in your BIOS, make sure there aren't any conflicts...
As of the kernel, I suggest you first build a very simple one enough for you to boot, and compile it later more comfortably to better suit your taste.
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rac
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Joined: 30 May 2002
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Location: Japanifornia
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2002 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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Are you using the Gentoo kernel patches? If so, you might want to see if your problems persist even using vanilla-sources.
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Timothy L. Miller
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Joined: 24 Jul 2002
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Location: MD, USA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2002 5:18 am Post subject: |
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| rac wrote: | | Are you using the Gentoo kernel patches? If so, you might want to see if your problems persist even using vanilla-sources. |
Yes, I was. Will try the vanilla sources, see if there's any different? Anyone have a useful site to tell me what is NEEDED in the kernel in order to boot? I'm very clueless when it comes to the kernel.
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Timothy L. Miller
"Treachery will get you everything."
"Lady luck is a hooker, and I'm fresh out of cash." |
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rac
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| Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2002 5:26 am Post subject: |
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| Timothy L. Miller wrote: | | Anyone have a useful site to tell me what is NEEDED in the kernel in order to boot? I'm very clueless when it comes to the kernel. |
If you haven't already found it, http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Kernel-HOWTO.html is a good starting point. For reference, here's the config file used to generate the kernel on the install CD, although I'm not sure that all of the options would be relevant on a vanilla kernel.
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Timothy L. Miller
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| Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2002 11:04 am Post subject: |
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Nope, hadn't found that page. Thanks.
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Timothy L. Miller
"Treachery will get you everything."
"Lady luck is a hooker, and I'm fresh out of cash." |
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Budro
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 17 Aug 2002
Posts: 91
Location: MD, USA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2002 7:11 pm Post subject: Other things to try .... |
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Yank all the PCI/ISA cards out i.e network card, sound card etc....
Go into the BIOS and disable any power management, special ram timings if you've been overclocking. If there is a selection for "OS = Plug and Play" disable that tooo....
Hell, I'd even try and disable serial and printer ports too ...
I hope you find it ... I would have went postal by now and pulled out the Louisville Slugger 
| Timothy L. Miller wrote: | | Nope, hadn't found that page. Thanks. |
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Installing Gentoo
