Guest posts. Good? Bad? Discuss.

[klieber]

Folks --

Currently, guest posts are allowed in the Installing Gentoo forum as well as the Newbies forum. There has been some discussion about restricting those forums (as well as continuing to restrict the rest of the forums) so that guests may not post. Guests would still be able to read any/all posts in the main forums. (as they can now)

Primary reason for this is there seems to be an unusually high amount of "noise" coming from guest posts -- posts in the wrong forum, questions that have been asked 20 billion times before, etc. The thought is that, by requiring people to register, we will improve the signal-to-noise ratio in the forums and therefore improve the experience for all forum members.

Any strong opinions one way or the other on this? I'm sitting on the fence on this issue, so your opinions will definitely have impact on the final decision.

--kurt
_________________
The problem with political jokes is that they get elected

[DeadMonkey]

Hello,

While you're probably correct that guest posting results in spurious posts for the same questions over and over, I think by limiting posting access you are in essence closing this forum to a large segment of people who would not sign up for anything, let alone this forum.

There are plenty of people who are on the fence about giving out information of any kind to a web site or forum (see: everyone who posts to slashdot! ).

I'm just of the opinion that by closing off guest access you will turn away folks looking for support with Gentoo, sending them to other distros, which we don't want!

PLUS, you mentioned in the announcements area that you will be deleting accounts that are inactive for 4 months at a time. Since I spend most of my time lurking (as a registered user), I feel you would be spending more time purging mandatory registration accounts for someone who had one question every six months that you would need!

Thanks for listening.

[klieber]

[Valen]

From what I have seen (and I haven't been here all that long), guest posts seem to have the same signal to noise ratio as regular posts. I've seen plenty of registered users who post in the wrong forum or ask the same question.
Since the registration is quite painless I don't see the problem in making it necessary but I don't think it will change the problem.

[wilbertnl]

Maybe it's true that guests tend to make more mistakes when they are posting. Is there a reason to think that they don't make the same mistakes after they register?

Maybe guests are just Linux users who are 'trying out' Gentoo, and by offering them access to the forums we open the door to information for them. And they can experience what a nice community we are!

Another option for the newbies would be newsgroups, but there is maybe not the specific Gentoo knowlegde.

Keep the door open, we all have been in the same stage, where we were disoriented once in a while.
_________________
Wilbert van Bakel
Strive for excellence, not perfection

[wilbertnl]

By the way...

Is there a valid reason why those Gentoo users, who think thet guests should be banned, don't need to express there reasoning???

I want to hear how they came to their standpoint.
_________________
Wilbert van Bakel
Strive for excellence, not perfection

[klieber]

[klieber]

OK, I'm going to play devil's advocate for a minute, not because my mind is made up, but because I want try and tackle this question from all possible angles.

The *only* reason these forums are successful is because there are knowledgeable people who are willing to donate their time to answer questions. If people don't answer questions, these forums cease to exist. In that sense, this forum depends on being treated as a community, with give and take among its members, rather than as a one-way outflow of information.

I will make the argument that, by registering for an account, you are more likely to become more involved with the forums and give back to the community. Thus, the more people that become involved as regular contributors, the more successful these forums become.

As for the argument that there are some people who refuse to give out any information over the web, I don't disagree with that, but I do discount that as something that should influence the decision making process. We don't ask for any overly-sensitive information and never disclose email addresses. You can be registered and never use cookies, so that argument goes out the window, too. If folks can't see past their tinfoil hats to realize we're not a threat to their personal freedom, then these forums probably aren't the right place for them to participate.

--kurt
_________________
The problem with political jokes is that they get elected

[pjp]

I can certainly see the value in allowing guests to post as some have already mentioned. My main argument for requiring registration would be, if you can read the forums, you can register. That is, if you would like to post a question asking for support, you are able to register to do so. Being able to read the forums means you have some means of getting to them, so it is not making your installation any more difficult. Requiring a user to register would allow us to send the user a PM if we decided to move one of their threads. We cannot mail a guest this information. This could also improve the content of the forums over time. The 'Newbies' forum could actually contain threads most commonly asked. 'Why can't I su?' etc.
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Quis separabit? Quo animo?

[Valen]

I am kind of interested to hear why people post as guest, registration is very quick so it might be interesting to hear from some guests. Maybe it isn't the giving out information issue.

[rac]

[pjp]

Ignore rac's last post. Consider lack of 'guest' input to be consent for requiring registration
_________________
Quis separabit? Quo animo?

[wilbertnl]

[Naan Yaar]

There are several strikes against guest posts:

• Guest posts make it very hard to follow threads. There is no real way of citing someone's post in a thread with just a name if people post as guests. And, yes, I do know that you can quote the post; this makes threads unnecessarily verbose.
  
• Abusive posts and the like tend to be, though not limited to, guest posts.
  
• Guest posts seem to reflect an inadequate perusal of the FAQ and other documentation more so than posts made with attribution. This is based on observation, rather than hard statistics.
  

I really cannot understand what makes the registration process too hard or distasteful? You can register without revealing ANY personal information and maintain anonymity.

[klieber]

[klieber]

Updated the poll options with new, "anti-pedant" armor.

--kurt
_________________
The problem with political jokes is that they get elected

[rac]

[masseya]

I have to say that I think Guests should continue to be allowed to post in Newbies and Installing Gentoo. Here's why:

First, it's a lot more friendly to people who are thinking about using gentoo to think that they can get some basic support without having to be part of the 'Gentoo Fan Club'. It's would make us appear elitist to require registration for posting in a Newbie forum. It's just plain not friendly, but these forums are. I wouldn't want to give the wrong impression.

Second, some of the more informative posts are quick tidbits dropped off by someone who may not have done so if he/she was required to register first. There is a lot of noise with Guest posts, but I think there's a decent amount of people who were browsing and found one thing that they knew a lot about and shared because it was quick and simple.

Third, there's not *that* many trouble spots out there. I know it's a little difficult to help someone who's posted as a Guest because you can't quote them easily, tell them you've moved their post, or keep track of which one is which, but this doesn't happen very often and for the benefits it brings to people who properly make use of the Guest feature this small problem is worthwhile. (Luckily, I don't have to deal with some of this because I'm not a moderator and I don't move posts. )

Fourth, it will not attract more people or 'better' people to restrict Guest posts. I think there are a lot of people who post once or twice as a Guest and then later register because they came back and saw all the pretty avatars of the people who were kind, friendly, and nicely directed them to a post that they didn't see because they didn't put the word AND in their search of the forums. Be aware that there's a great danger in saying that you'll get 'better' people if you restrict Guest posting.

Fifth, the problems that Guest posts cause can easily be solved through methods other than restricting Guest posting. If too many posts are going unanswered because of traffic, find a way to increase the page size or restructure the forum so the categories aren't as broad. Move off-topic posts to an appropriate forum quickly and state the reason as you've been doing. People understand that you'll (moderators) have to appear like a jerk to make sure things stay helpful in a particular forum.

Lastly, if you do find that you just can't deal with guest posting and you're about to block them altogether, please consider making a guest forum. I just think that restricting Guest posts is awful harsh in it's appearance to someone who's browsing the forums for the first time.
_________________
if i never try anything, i never learn anything..
if i never take a risk, i stay where i am..

[masseya]

Another thing that might help get more people to register as opposed to posting as a Guest would be to change the statistics page's Top Posters stats to be the top 25 posters or possibly to make a separate category for moderators who are now in controll of the top five spots. I'm sure a lot of people check the statistics page before deciding to sign up or not. There's a lot to be said for the psychology behind using this as a statistic. However, I think this would also encourage more cheesy posts, which I don't have a problem with as long as they are in Off The Wall.
_________________
if i never try anything, i never learn anything..
if i never take a risk, i stay where i am..

[wilbertnl]

[klieber]

[masseya]

Ok, let's say that we do restrict Guests from posting. I think what will happen is not that we reduce the level of noise posts but that we scatter it about all over our forums. If you think that registering is going to prevent a lot of noise in Newbies and Installing Gentoo then I would agree. There are a lot of Guest posts there that are somewhat 'noisy'. I don't think that it's all that much more than a registered users on a percentage basis, but that's somewhat ancillary. The point is that at least they are posting in the right place. If you make people register, then they will ask their "Why can't I su?" question in the Security forum or something.

Think about this: If you are a new user who is trying gentoo out and you are having trouble with something you may want to post your question. If you have to register you are more likely to not post in Newbies or Installing Gentoo for the simple reason that you would like to have a bunch of the most experienced people looking at your question and helping you with it. There are a lot of people who just don't want to deal with Newbies and, as someone who has a question that you would like a fast and accurate answer too, you would like to have their input. Perhaps you think this is a serious problem and it's very difficult for you to figure out because you've tried a lot of things. (or you think you have) Even just reading the descriptions of the Newbies and Installing Gentoo forums can make you think that those are the forums where you wouldn't get a really experienced person to answer you because they should have easier questions.
_________________
if i never try anything, i never learn anything..
if i never take a risk, i stay where i am..

[rac]

[masseya]

Just because it doesn't actually translate to getting more help doesn't mean that it isn't something that people wouldn't do.
_________________
if i never try anything, i never learn anything..
if i never take a risk, i stay where i am..

[rac]