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BiggJ
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ShockValue
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Joined: 26 Mar 2003
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 Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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THird fastest growing distro that is hosting a website with apache.
I would bet it's higher if you could look at "Computer Enthusiast" statistics. |
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BiggJ
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| Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| True ... true ... but a measurement of it being used in production environments is valid. |
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aethyr
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| Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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I think it's also good to point out that overall there was a large overall growth in number of Linux boxes running web servers :)
I do agree with the comment about Gentoo experience larger growth on personal desktops as well. Those would be interesting numbers, but really all people can do is estimate. I'd be curious to see how many unique IP addresses hit the rsync servers in a given week/month. |
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ShockValue
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Joined: 26 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| BiggJ wrote: | | True ... true ... but a measurement of it being used in production environments is valid. |
Sorry, didn't mean to imply I was disagreeing with you. It is indeed valid, and a nice surprise. Seems that when ever anyone asks "what distro for server-application-X" people alawys say FreeBSD or Debian. It seems there are more people willing to go gentoo for webservers (I do.) |
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je4d
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Joined: 28 Aug 2002
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| Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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As shockvalue said, that's for webhosting.
Personally, I think that anyone running a server on gentoo is mad. It's just not what gentoo is good at.
FWIW, both my laptop & desktop run gentoo, and my server runs debian (-:
- J |
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ebrostig
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Joined: 20 Jul 2002
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Location: Orlando, Fl
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| Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| je4d wrote: | As shockvalue said, that's for webhosting.
Personally, I think that anyone running a server on gentoo is mad. It's just not what gentoo is good at.
FWIW, both my laptop & desktop run gentoo, and my server runs debian (-:
- J |
Can you please explain?
I can agree with you if your argument is commercial support, besides that I would love to hear your arguments as to why not to use Gentoo on servers.
Erik
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geertn
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Joined: 15 Aug 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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Commercial support for debian is not all that.........
But we miss semi-automated security updates for gentoo. (apt-get update / apt-get -u upgrade). You can say you dont need that, but he... that's exactly the point why Debian got famous!! |
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emgarf
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Joined: 06 Aug 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2004 4:30 am Post subject: |
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| I bet it's the distro with the most turnover, based on the number of Linux users I know that have tried it and given up on the install. |
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sigix
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Joined: 25 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2004 9:29 am Post subject: |
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yah this distro is really, who wanna play and learn  |
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Brother Dysk
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Joined: 29 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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Not just the Apache server distros, no.
The Apache servers that have a distro in the Apache header. Which, according to NetCraft, is only about a quarter of all linux Apache servers. |
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Koon
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Joined: 10 Dec 2002
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2004 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| geertn wrote: | | But we miss semi-automated security updates for gentoo. (apt-get update / apt-get -u upgrade). You can say you dont need that, but he... that's exactly the point why Debian got famous!! |
It's coming, see GLEP 14. Once it's there and once the portage tree is digitally signed, there will be no technical reason not to consider Gentoo as a good alternative for servers. I already use Gentoo on mines 
Since the "more stable" point will come in this discussion soon, I anticipate and say this : if stability really is an issue you should not trust anyone, have your own pre-production server to test your software on and procedures to double-check that what you put in your box is working before being deployed in production.
With these procedures in place, Gentoo is at least as appropriate as Debian for server use, and could even be described as more appropriate, since you can easily build binary packages on your pre-production server to be deployed on your production server after proper validation.
-K |
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tecknojunky
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| Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Code: | Distribution July 2003 January 2004 Growth Rate
Debian 355,469 442,752 24.6%
SuSE 240,411 296,217 23.2%
Gentoo 20,273 24,229 19.5%
RedHat 1,231,986 1,451,505 17.8%
Mandrake 51,299 52,543 2.4%
Cobalt 553,012 548,963 -0.7% |
With small numbers like that for Gentoo, I question the methodology to consider thoses numbers has valids.
I have written my own distribution: July 2003: 1 user, January 2004: 10 users. Woohoo!!! 1000% growth. That must surely be the fastest growing distribution... right?
See what I mean? Gentoo's numbers are so low that it's more of an outlier than anything else. Red-hats increase in numbers of servers is 9 time the number of total Gentoo servers.
Basically, I think this methodology for measuring the growth of a distribution is flawed.
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gsfgf
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 2:39 am Post subject: |
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Does the apache for gentoo package automatically put gentoo in the header? i was under the impression that it didn't which would account for the small numbers.
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tecknojunky
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| gsfgf wrote: | | Does the apache for gentoo package automatically put gentoo in the header? i was under the impression that it didn't which would account for the small numbers. |
Yes it does. Go enter your url for your domain on Netcraft's site and you'll see for yourself. | Quote: | | The site tecknojunky.com is running Apache/1.3.29 (Unix) (Gentoo/Linux) mod_ssl/2.8.16 OpenSSL/0.9.6k mod_gzip/1.3.26.1a PHP/4.3.3 on Linux. |
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castorilo
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Joined: 25 Dec 2002
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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Like it or not, I think the lack of a graphical installer is hurting gentoo adoption. I have seen many people get discoraged after struggling to get gentoo working, and move on to something else. Not everybody enjoy spending hours of typing commands just to get apache working.
This basically restricts gentoo for people with experience with linux and that are willing to learn a lot. This is a relativelly small group. It does not matter how easy it is to set up apache (emerge apache) if people have difficulty to install gentoo.
I think the grouth rate would increase significantly if gentoo provided an optional graphical installer. It would have to be optional because there are many people who dislike and oppose a graphical installer. |
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deepwave
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Joined: 18 Jan 2004
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Location: ONS Insomniac
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 4:16 pm Post subject: GUI needed? |
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I agree the lack of an optional GUI installer hurts. But then again I am not sure if I want to see Gentoo become a sort of RedHat distro. So I guess the debate is still open...
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ewan.paton
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Joined: 29 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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not wishing to be eliteist but do you realy think people who cant setup gentoo without a point and click gui should be running linux servers, granted it would be handy for desktop users but i can live with a lower number of smart users at the moment.
as gentoo is the distro i am by far the most familiar i would probably trust the x86 tree but mainly as i have never realy used/liked debian, if my job depended upon it i would be a bit nervious[1] though as a server admin i would probably(hopefully) have beter linux knowlage so i wouldnt screw about so much.
[1] i have done some strange things to my system using modist flags and rember the time etc-update broke dhcp
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Jefklak
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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Indeed tecknojunky, that are very small numbers for gentoo... Are there really that many people using Gentoo? I think its at least twice more! Must have been Bill, making that article  |
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tecknojunky
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Jefklak wrote: | | Indeed tecknojunky, that are very small numbers for gentoo... Are there really that many people using Gentoo? I think its at least twice more! Must have been Bill, making that article |
I'd say even more than twice. The numbers are what they are: the number of Apache/Linux servers disclosing their Distribution name in the header. As such, then yes, Gentoo genuinely comes third. It is just that the news article is titled solely by "Distribution growth", out of it's context. But the small numbers for Gentoo makes it easy to climb high and drop low from 6 months to 6 months. For Gentoo to be number one, it would have needed only 1032 more servers. That's my point.
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lemming
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Location: Kanab, UT
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| ebrostig wrote: | | je4d wrote: | As shockvalue said, that's for webhosting.
Personally, I think that anyone running a server on gentoo is mad. It's just not what gentoo is good at.
FWIW, both my laptop & desktop run gentoo, and my server runs debian (-:
- J |
Can you please explain?
I can agree with you if your argument is commercial support, besides that I would love to hear your arguments as to why not to use Gentoo on servers. |
I've got no problem with running my server on Gentoo. It gets updated less often, normally for security patches.
And having everything running Gentoo keeps things in the family.
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Syntaxis
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| Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2004 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Koon wrote: | | With these procedures in place, Gentoo is at least as appropriate as Debian for server use |
Debian Stable is also stable as in "does not change". Security fixes are backported by the security team, and no non-critical (i.e. neither security-related, nor sufficiently severe that the package will be completely broken without it) patches are allowed in at all. This is fairly hard to beat in terms of ease of maintenance.
By contrast, I suspect that the Gentoo approach will continue to mean just upgrading to the latest upstream release, an unknown quantity complete with new features and new bugs. Additionally, aspects of the app's behaviour may have been modified or deprecated between releases, requiring the admin to first get himself up to speed as to what these changes are, then spend time ensuring the new setup does exactly what it did before.
| Quote: | | and could even be described as more appropriate, since you can easily build binary packages on your pre-production server to be deployed on your production server after proper validation. |
With Debian there's generally no need to compile the packages at all (though it's still easy enough to do so) so the administrator can get straight to the validation/testing phase. A backported security patch will also require far less testing than a whole new release, so it can be deployed much sooner. |
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Abraxas
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Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2004 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Syntaxis wrote: | | With Debian there's generally no need to compile the packages at all (though it's still easy enough to do so) so the administrator can get straight to the validation/testing phase. A backported security patch will also require far less testing than a whole new release, so it can be deployed much sooner. |
You cannot really trust binaries unless you compile them yourself though. Installing a binary on Debian is putting faith in a volunteer. At least with Gentoo you can trust the binary fully because you built it yourself.
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a23d56
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 29 Aug 2003
Posts: 109
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2004 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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| paulpach wrote: | | grouth rate would increase significantly if gentoo provided an optional graphical installer |
Using a source distribution requires a certain level of software skill, since compiling programs is inherent to its use. Why should gentoo developers care whether Windows Joe User will ever use gentoo, or not?
To me, growth of users is less important than growth of developers, who make the distribution what it is.
 |
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Athas
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Joined: 04 Sep 2003
Posts: 394
Location: Brøndby, Denmark
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| Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2004 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Abraxas wrote: | | You cannot really trust binaries unless you compile them yourself though. Installing a binary on Debian is putting faith in a volunteer. At least with Gentoo you can trust the binary fully because you built it yourself. |
Do you you personally read through the source code of every single package you install?
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