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makoffee
n00b
Joined: 05 Mar 2003
Posts: 22
Location: Minneapolis
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 Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 8:38 am Post subject: Is mandrake stealing this gentoo'rs heart? |
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Short answer: Yes
Long answer: I have to say, over the last two years I've been an avid gentoo user, but this weekend I installed mandrake 10 on a friends box, who just "wanted to try linux". After spending some time setting up the box and installing software, I realized that I hadn't even opened a terminal. And for a deskop linux distro, that's pretty good. Not only is the UI and installer worth faltery, the hot pluging and hardware detection is second to none. For the most part, the mandrake people have put together one of the best distros I've ever seen. Granted it will never be as bleeding edge as gentoo is, it does represent what I see as a work of art, bending gnu system to a good UI. It just works, and well. Sorry guys, I may be back, but untill then I'll be keeping it real just on all my servers.
-Matt
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Cerement
Guru
Joined: 14 Jun 2003
Posts: 404
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 8:59 am Post subject: |
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RPM Hell  |
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Pink
Veteran
Joined: 24 Jul 2003
Posts: 1062
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 9:01 am Post subject: |
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| bye bye |
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Redeeman
l33t
Joined: 25 Sep 2003
Posts: 958
Location: Portugal
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| mandrake uses rpm, thats enough to not use it. and it certainly does not have portage! |
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asimon
l33t
Joined: 27 Jun 2002
Posts: 979
Location: Germany, Old Europe
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| If it works and is sexy just use it. Mandake is a great distro. I used it for many years and was exceedingly pleased. |
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Jefklak
l33t
Joined: 26 Oct 2003
Posts: 818
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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ROFL this is a good one... 
Hm. Of course not, shall I say. And to add:  !
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Flammie
Retired Dev
Joined: 02 Jun 2003
Posts: 633
Location: Dublin, Ireland
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| I installed Mandrake 10 to my secondary box. I still can't understand why it is so hard to add a ftp-source for updating system. And Finnish translation is still annoyingly bad, if it was so easy to use that I could tell my mother to install it on her computer I might change to Mandrake, but in current state it gives nothing ready. |
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ccosse
Apprentice
Joined: 10 Mar 2004
Posts: 171
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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that's nice to hear; too bad 9.1 and 9.2 were so bad!
IMHO Mandrake has gone the way of Java: too much
evolution and not enough survival-of-the-fittest. |
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stonent
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Joined: 07 Aug 2003
Posts: 1139
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2004 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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Why do people continuously have to make a big announcement that they are changing distros? I didn't go into a microsoft newsgroup and make a big announcement that I was installing linux.
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skunkworx
Guru
Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Posts: 420
Location: Planet Houston
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| Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2004 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| stonent wrote: | Why do people continuously have to make a big announcement that they are changing distros? I didn't go into a microsoft newsgroup and make a big announcement that I was installing linux.
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Why not? 
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Jake
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Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 1132
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| Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2004 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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| stonent wrote: | Why do people continuously have to make a big announcement that they are changing distros? I didn't go into a microsoft newsgroup and make a big announcement that I was installing linux.
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Just be glad we're not dealing with newbies that ask how to "uninstall Linux." |
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irf2003
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Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 1078
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| Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2004 8:07 pm Post subject: Re: Is mandrake stealing this gentoo'rs heart? |
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| makoffee wrote: | Short answer: Yes
Long answer: I have to say, over the last two years I've been an avid gentoo user, but this weekend I installed mandrake 10 on a friends box, who just "wanted to try linux". After spending some time setting up the box and installing software, I realized that I hadn't even opened a terminal. And for a deskop linux distro, that's pretty good. Not only is the UI and installer worth faltery, the hot pluging and hardware detection is second to none. For the most part, the mandrake people have put together one of the best distros I've ever seen. Granted it will never be as bleeding edge as gentoo is, it does represent what I see as a work of art, bending gnu system to a good UI. It just works, and well. Sorry guys, I may be back, but untill then I'll be keeping it real just on all my servers.
-Matt |
it's all about choice, if you like it and can live with it use it.
i never liked mandrake although i must admit that i had
recommended it to some in the hope that they will migrate
to nix. but, in the long run, gentoo is much easier to live with.
so, i now maintain binary packages and disk images (all gentoo based) for rapid deployment to would be nix users.
and believe me, my life is a lot easier with gentoo,
hth
rapid |
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zrl
n00b
Joined: 20 Jan 2004
Posts: 47
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2004 12:12 am Post subject: |
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mandrake is not the "Other Things Gentoo"(this forum), it is a 'mandrake thing'. I bet most of the people have tried many other distro before they decided to free-fall into this gentoo-thing.
Some people like banana, some like apple, some eat the orange with peel, and some "digest gentoo" |
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asiobob
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Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 1375
Location: Bamboo Creek
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2004 12:21 am Post subject: |
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Mandrake is quick to install and generally user friendly.
Mandrake 9.1 was good, 9.2 was a poor effort, and 10 looks good again.
We all know the benifits of gentoo. Sure there's more commandline stuff but its easy and not painful. Not for everyone but thats Gentoo.
I always recommend Mandrake to someone locked into windows with not alot of computing knowledge. They seem to enjoy it. After awhile they move to gentoo debain et al...
It's all about choice, gentoo is a bloody good choice  |
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MacMasta
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Joined: 18 Apr 2002
Posts: 545
Location: Anchorage, AK
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2004 2:18 am Post subject: |
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I am of the view that a 'good UI' and a 'graphical ui' are not necessarily related; I tend to advise newbie friends towards RH or MDK because gui is 'easier'; but, as a user, I find the command-line to be much /faster/ for just about everything I do.
So, to each their own.
~Mac~
<fluxbox+eterm+vim; my life is complete> |
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asiobob
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Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 1375
Location: Bamboo Creek
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2004 2:31 am Post subject: |
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good call there MacMasta...
Was in a Software Engineering lecture and it was discussed that a Good UI doens't have to be a GUI and later it was also discussed how its nice (productive?) to have several "UI" depending on the end users "percieved" skill level... ie, power users can use a command line, its quicker and gets more work done, yet other users may use a GUI, not as quick but prolly quicker (for them) than using the CLI.
Portage is a good example of a command line UI thats easy to use...
Mandrake has some nice GUI tools but they lack extra options..
As gentoo develops perhaps there would be a nice package that includes a set of UI tools for gentoo's scripts but it would havet o be optional at best.
Given a new user to linux who has a minimum "willing to learn" threshold as many do :p Mandrake would be more appealing to them.
Then again comparing Gentoo to mandrake is comparing two way different things in a way... |
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homeobocks
Guru
Joined: 19 Dec 2003
Posts: 345
Location: I'm from Canada, and they say I'm a little slow . . . eh?
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2004 2:34 am Post subject: |
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| Redeeman wrote: | | mandrake uses rpm, thats enough to not use it. and it certainly does not have portage! |
It's pretty trivial to put portage on a non-Gentoo, Linux system.
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stonent
Veteran
Joined: 07 Aug 2003
Posts: 1139
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2004 2:52 am Post subject: |
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Solaris has a relatively simple ncurses style installer, if your graphics card is supported you can do a gui install and surf in the background. If you read the prompts then anyone can install it.
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pandaxiongmao
Guru
Joined: 29 Sep 2003
Posts: 478
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2004 5:56 am Post subject: |
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I installed Mandrake 10 to my roommate's laptop, but I realized that I forgot to install development tools; therefore, I couldn't compile anything, so I decided to give Gentoo stage 3 a try instead, and it runs really well.
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Boris27
Guru
Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 562
Location: Almelo, The Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2004 7:29 am Post subject: |
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| pandaxiongmao wrote: | | I installed Mandrake 10 to my roommate's laptop, but I realized that I forgot to install development tools; therefore, I couldn't compile anything, so I decided to give Gentoo stage 3 a try instead, and it runs really well. |
Jup. And the kernel sources are not default installed. I need my GCC and kernel sources. It's hell when a friend installs mandrake and asks me how to compile stuff.
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monolin
n00b
Joined: 04 Feb 2004
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2004 10:26 am Post subject: |
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| Flammie wrote: | | I installed Mandrake 10 to my secondary box. I still can't understand why it is so hard to add a ftp-source for updating system. And Finnish translation is still annoyingly bad, if it was so easy to use that I could tell my mother to install it on her computer I might change to Mandrake, but in current state it gives nothing ready. |
If Mandrake can make system update and adding sources easy, then it will my first choice. I guess they deliberately make adding sources difficult and don't care about the source server speed.
urpmi solves 'rpm hell' perfectly but the drawback is that the package database does not support rsync option as gentoo did. So everytime you have to upgrade a lot of package info before you can slowly download packages.
if urpmi learns more from emerge sync for package data update and configure a few fast servers, it will win more users plus its easy-to-use, quick deployment and good face-work advantages.
I have a question here about gentoo:
I configured CFLAGS with the most aggressive options and the resulting system is still very sluggish. People say that gentoo is fast, but frankly, I never feel it is faster than other distros and my impression is the oppoiste.
I have tried stage1, stage2 and 3 and they are all slow under kde3.2 evnironment.
After tried prelink, I speed up a little but still not quite responsive.
Where did I do wrong? Please give me some hints on how to built a gentoo system that beats most of the distro out there. |
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Flammie
Retired Dev
Joined: 02 Jun 2003
Posts: 633
Location: Dublin, Ireland
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2004 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| monolin wrote: | I have a question here about gentoo:
I configured CFLAGS with the most aggressive options and the resulting system is still very sluggish. People say that gentoo is fast, but frankly, I never feel it is faster than other distros and my impression is the oppoiste.
I have tried stage1, stage2 and 3 and they are all slow under kde3.2 evnironment.
After tried prelink, I speed up a little but still not quite responsive.
Where did I do wrong? Please give me some hints on how to built a gentoo system that beats most of the distro out there. |
Depending on what you compile and what flags you use the compiler optimizations might give couple of extra cycles, spend twice as much or even break the whole system. Because of the issues caused many programs do strip the flags anyways.
OTOH for 99% KDE-systems I've seen the bottleneck seems to lie at the mass memory speed. The both dominant desktop environments today seem to be very hard disk intensive and not use cpu all that much so optimizations will go in vein anyways.
But but, this discussion can prolly be found on other threads on the forum and in the mailing list archive anyways. Better look there. |
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someguy
Guru
Joined: 10 Jul 2003
Posts: 433
Location: (-_-) .::OH_WELL::. (-_-)
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2004 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Long answer: I have to say, over the last two years I've been an avid gentoo user, but this weekend I installed mandrake 10 on a friends box, who just "wanted to try linux". After spending some time setting up the box and installing software, I realized that I hadn't even opened a terminal. And for a deskop linux distro, that's pretty good. Not only is the UI and installer worth faltery, the hot pluging and hardware detection is second to none. For the most part, the mandrake people have put together one of the best distros I've ever seen. Granted it will never be as bleeding edge as gentoo is, it does represent what I see as a work of art, bending gnu system to a good UI. It just works, and well. Sorry guys, I may be back, but untill then I'll be keeping it real just on all my servers. |
your dumb lol i do mean that
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print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<>
)]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0<X+d*lMLa^*lN%0]dsXx++lMlN/dsM0<J]dsJxp"|dc`
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radulucian
Apprentice
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 151
Location: Bucharest Romania
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2004 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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short answer: No
long answer: just as "someguy" said, you're really dumb. apart from that, i bet you've never really used gentoo. and you are lying. if some friend would ask me to help me install linux cause he would like to try it, i would install gentoo, obviously.
so: who are you trying to fool?
mandrake may be worth the try, but please don't come here with such lame excuses 
p.s. i am not even subscribing to this thread
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charlieg
Advocate
Joined: 30 Jul 2002
Posts: 2149
Location: Manchester UK
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2004 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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Why the elitist attitude from the previous 2 posters?
Please don't sully our community with a similar stigma to that which afflicts other distributions who poeple label as 'used by elitists'.
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