What about a installer like Debian

tbacav · n00b Joined: 18 Mar 2004 Posts: 22

I think that while the arguments for a GUI based installer (mostly just ease of use) are valid, it isn't really the point of Gentoo. For me Gentoo is all about hand rolling your OS into a slim, secure and fast shape and having a fantastic package management system in the form of portage.

As others have said, this is a great way to learn more about how Linux works and forces you to sink your teeth into the CLI and some documentation, which is a fantastic experience for those with enough technical know-how to handle this much. Newb users should be able to just follow the handbook and have a basic system up and running. Ideally, they should be starting out with another distribution, something like Mandrake or Slackware.

In Windows one often has to dig through several guis or a time-consuming wizard to fix things, under Linux simple problems are fixed by reading some logs, modifying easy to understand config files, and running a command or two. Sure, it takes a little more knowledge, but it's usually a quicker and more interactive way of doing things.

The argument about time becomes a moot point when using binaries. One could have a Gentoo system up in the same time as a Debian system, but for me the chance to compile code is just another part of the Gentoo experience.

fallow · Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 7:21 pm Post subject:

for me , the current installation methods (live cd , other distro ) is very good , nice and useful and sufficient

greetzzz

shm · Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 7:23 pm Post subject:

Genone · Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 1:59 am Post subject:

Is this thread #21354 or #31542 for the "Make an installer" subject ?

pilla · Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 3:06 am Post subject:

Cerement · Guru Joined: 14 Jun 2003 Posts: 404

Blue Fox · Apprentice Joined: 09 Apr 2004 Posts: 216

I'm waiting for the installer, even though i didn't have problems with the installation system.
Everybody knows that we learn realy a lot during the instalation process, but I don't wake up everyday with that motivation to do a Stage1 Installation, but you may need to do that.
_________________
"Never argue with and idiot cuz he bring you down to his level and beat you with experience"

fallow · Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 8:07 pm Post subject:

you can "do" stage3 and recomplile system when you have a good motivation

hm , is idea of anaconda-base intalator ( ble) :
http://www.latinux.org/
and gentoo installation script

http://glis.sourceforge.net/
the last one , looks good

greetz

ps

current installation method rules

_dook_master_ · Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 9:12 pm Post subject:

I don't know about the rest of you, but part of the reason I like Gentoo so much is the challenge it presents. This challenge means a steep learning curve, and I learned more about Linux than I ever thought I would with Gentoo. I think a graphical installer sort of takes away the factor, and makes it just another one of the .com Linux distros (RedHat, SuSE, etc.). Thats just what I think, but I think a graphical installer is just a crutch, and not trying to be elitist or anything, but it sets Gentoo apart from many other distros. It doesn't tell you what to do, or help you along the install, which is why the customisation is so nice. For instance, during Slackware's install, you cannot specify that you want /dev/hda4 to mount to /home, and things like that, it just asks you how big of partitions you want. I am sure that you could still have the command line install possible, but with the graphical installer there, why use it? Well, thats just my two cents....

ratbert90 · Apprentice Joined: 28 May 2003 Posts: 177

People, my god get a hold of reality!

Starting gentoo from a stage one install teaches you jack shit.
Honestly. Running scripts/bootstrap.sh is not teaching you much. The only thing it might teach you a little bit more about is CFLAGS and thats about it.

ratbert90 · Apprentice Joined: 28 May 2003 Posts: 177

sindre · Guru Joined: 01 Nov 2002 Posts: 315 Location: Norway

I use the installer as little as possible when setting up debian systems. I install the base and apt-get whatever I want. That's how I like it.

_dook_master_ · Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 7:12 pm Post subject:

ratbert90 · Apprentice Joined: 28 May 2003 Posts: 177

_dook_master_ · Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 12:37 am Post subject:

codergeek42 · Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 1:10 am Post subject:

I know this has prolly been said, but I'll throw in my two cents anyway.
Personally, after I installed Fedora and SuSE prior to that, I was in another GUI environment. Whoo-hoo! I had to ween myself into command line to do things like re-configure/re-compile my kernel, install from source, (the oh-so-fun "./configure; make; make install"

), etc.

I truly love and adore the way that Gentoo basically forces you to learn how to do things from the console and how the entire distro works. The fact that I went through the install following whatever the manual told me to do means I have learned the importance of documentation/man/info pages. The fact that I actually was able to set it up successfully, even using links2 to ask on these forums or search on google for help has made me alot less afraid of doing things Command-Line.
_________________
~~ Peter: Programmer, Mathematician, STEM & Free Software Advocate, Enlightened Agent, Transhumanist, Fedora contributor
Who am I? :: EFF & FSF

uglyb0b · Apprentice Joined: 07 Sep 2003 Posts: 280

Ratbert90 said it better than anyone I've heard. I completely agree with him. Learning from the install docs is pure shit, and anyone who says it knows it. Many of us are just reading from the install docs almost exactly, the only thing being learned is the steps to do it next time. On the other hand, doing it with Linux From Scratch taught me stuff just sauntering around the install docs. Want a learning experience? Use LFS. Want Portage? Use Gentoo.
_________________
Blog.

Linux geek and Mac whore.

homeobocks · Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 1:49 am Post subject:

I like the Gentoo installation. I was between n00b and intermediate when I installed it , and it was pretty straight-forward. I find the Debian installation process much harder.
_________________
HOW DO I SHOT WEB

provicemo · Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 3:10 am Post subject:

I'd rather see a semi-text based installer. imagine 2 panes, 1 a terminal, the other a part of the install guide. when you finish one step, you hit next, and then the next step of the install guide would be displayed. It'd be sorta a nice walk thru, and a little less intimidating that a black prompt

solomonHk · Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 4:26 am Post subject:

I sortof like the way gentoo is currently distributed. Dunno, just the way my mind thinks. I guess i see too much candy as lack of control.

ratbert90 · Apprentice Joined: 28 May 2003 Posts: 177

curtis119 · Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 5:14 pm Post subject:

LFS is by far the better teaching tool. I installed it several times just for the knowledge it gave me. When I had learned all I wanted/needed I switched to Gentoo. Debian and Slackware were my distros of choice before that.

Taught me the most about Linux:

LFS
Gentoo
Debian
Slackware

I see Gentoo almost like an automated LFS. In fact on the LFS boards and rooms you will see a lot of LFSers are installing Portage onto there shiny new LFS installs. The perfect marriage.

_________________
Gentoo: it's like wiping your ass with silk.

Peaceable Frood · Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 10:39 pm Post subject:

I don't care what the developers add, as long as there always is a CLI option.

andyjeffries · Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 12:25 pm Post subject:

Personally I don't see the point in having a Debian-like installer. I am a long-term Red Hat user. I gave up trying to install Debian (can't remember what didn't work) about 3 weeks ago, then gave gentoo a go.

I certainly can't see me going back to RH or ever trying Debian ago.

Anyway, my point is that the Debian installer is one of the worst I've seen (and I've actually tried a few distros over the years). I think the Anaconda for Gentoo project is actually the best idea. If you want an easy installer to get the Joe Smith users, then Anaconda is the way to go.

Just my 2p.
_________________
Developer of gPHPEdit
A8N-SLI/AMD X2 4800+/2GB Dual Channel/GF 7900GT OC