| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
chrisdupre
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 30 May 2003
Posts: 120
|
 Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 4:01 am Post subject: |
 |
|
charlieg wrote:
What it is, is that you don't want to like Gnome, you want Gnome to prove you should like it. It's the same when I try KDE. I'm happy in Gnome, when I try KDE I want it to shout out "use me instead" and get grumpy with it when something isn't going right.
Thing is, unlike some people *cough* ebrostig *cough* I don't proclaim the other (in my case KDE, in his, Gnome) is shit because I have an issue or two with it. I just accept that KDE is a bit different, but equally advanced and full of goodness, and go back to what I'm used to.
That's what riles me, unrealistic condemnation. KDE is awesome. Gnome is awesome. Calling either shit is just wrong as they are both awesome. They're just different.
_____________
Couldn't say it better myself. Lets stop ranting about which one is better than the other and accept the fact that they are different. I like Gnome better because I believe it is easier to get used to. Some people like KDE better because they feel it is easier to get used to. I would like to try fluxbox or XFCE4 or some other WM or DE, maybe both KDE and Gnome users might find out there is a better option? (fluxbox)? (XFCE4)? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
robmoss
Retired Dev
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 2634
Location: Jesus College, Oxford
|
| Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 6:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
| charlieg wrote: | Thing is, unlike some people *cough* ebrostig *cough* I don't proclaim the other (in my case KDE, in his, Gnome) is shit because I have an issue or two with it. I just accept that KDE is a bit different, but equally advanced and full of goodness, and go back to what I'm used to.
That's what riles me, unrealistic condemnation. KDE is awesome. Gnome is awesome. Calling either shit is just wrong as they are both awesome. They're just different. |
That's not my problem - I just genuinely don't like KDE. I honestly think that KDE isn't awesome. I know why some people think it is, but that doesn't stop me disagreeing with them. For a start, it's unbelievably bloated... and 10 years of Windows made me hate bloatware with a passion!
_________________
Reality is for those who can't face Science Fiction.
emerge -U will kill your Gentoo
ecatmur, Lord of Portage Bash Scripts |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Evangelion
Veteran
Joined: 31 May 2002
Posts: 1087
Location: Helsinki, Finland
|
| Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 8:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
OK, I actually installed Gnome (2.6.1) and I'm running it as we speak (posting from Epiphany). I have now used it for about 15 minutes, and here are my impressions (I will add more stuff as they come up):
- It seems to boot marginally faster than KDE3.2.1 does
- On second startup, the splash-screen got stuck to the screen, and didn't go away untill I clicked on it
- During start-up it complained (twice) about not being able to run screensavers
- I like the default look 'n feel. Very toned down
- I think the selection-box (you know, when you push down LMB and drag) looks better than on KDE. But I don't like the color of selections. When I select something, it becomes too dark. God knows where I can change that
- I tried to change some of the settings. So I double-clicked on "Start Here" and there I saw "System Settings".... which is empty 
- I looked at desktop-preferences. Didn't change anything, just looked around. As I closed it, it crashed.
- Related to the item above, I like the bug-reporting tool. But I can't compare it to the KDE's tool, since I have never needed it in KDE  .
- In KDE I can access my SMB-shares by using the SMB-kioslave. How do I do that in Gnome?
- Where is the "address-bar" in the filemanager? OK, there's Control+L, but it's confusing and awkward IMO.
- OK, I found an usable filemanager. Instead of browsing filesystem from the desktop, I can do it through the "Applications" menu.
- When I drag a windows over the desktop-icons and back again, the icons disappear! Of course they reappear soon, but still....
- I like GDM alot more than KDM. But how do I add KDE to the sessions-list? KDM did it automatically, GDM does not.
_________________
My tech-blog | My other blog
Last edited by Evangelion on Sat May 08, 2004 9:10 am; edited 3 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Evangelion
Veteran
Joined: 31 May 2002
Posts: 1087
Location: Helsinki, Finland
|
| Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 8:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
| robmoss2k wrote: | | That's not my problem - I just genuinely don't like KDE. I honestly think that KDE isn't awesome. I know why some people think it is, but that doesn't stop me disagreeing with them. For a start, it's unbelievably bloated... and 10 years of Windows made me hate bloatware with a passion! |
How exactly is it "bloated"? It has been getting faster and less resource-hungy with each release since KDE2-series).
_________________
My tech-blog | My other blog |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
charlieg
Advocate
Joined: 30 Jul 2002
Posts: 2149
Location: Manchester UK
|
| Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 12:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Evangelion wrote: | OK, I actually installed Gnome (2.6.1) and I'm running it as we speak (posting from Epiphany). I have now used it for about 15 minutes, and here are my impressions (I will add more stuff as they come up):
- It seems to boot marginally faster than KDE3.2.1 does
- On second startup, the splash-screen got stuck to the screen, and didn't go away untill I clicked on it
- During start-up it complained (twice) about not being able to run screensavers
- I like the default look 'n feel. Very toned down
- I think the selection-box (you know, when you push down LMB and drag) looks better than on KDE. But I don't like the color of selections. When I select something, it becomes too dark. God knows where I can change that
- I tried to change some of the settings. So I double-clicked on "Start Here" and there I saw "System Settings".... which is empty
- I looked at desktop-preferences. Didn't change anything, just looked around. As I closed it, it crashed.
- Related to the item above, I like the bug-reporting tool. But I can't compare it to the KDE's tool, since I have never needed it in KDE .
- In KDE I can access my SMB-shares by using the SMB-kioslave. How do I do that in Gnome?
- Where is the "address-bar" in the filemanager? OK, there's Control+L, but it's confusing and awkward IMO.
- OK, I found an usable filemanager. Instead of browsing filesystem from the desktop, I can do it through the "Applications" menu.
- When I drag a windows over the desktop-icons and back again, the icons disappear! Of course they reappear soon, but still....
- I like GDM alot more than KDM. But how do I add KDE to the sessions-list? KDM did it automatically, GDM does not. |
Wow. 
Now if you'd have come up with that in the OTW thread on Gnome options, I'd have had a whole lot more respect for what you were saying in there.
A few interesting bugs/points there.
_________________
Want Free games?
Free Gamer - open source games list & commentary
Open source web-enabled rich UI platform: Vexi |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Evangelion
Veteran
Joined: 31 May 2002
Posts: 1087
Location: Helsinki, Finland
|
| Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 2:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| charlieg wrote: | | Evangelion wrote: | OK, I actually installed Gnome (2.6.1) and I'm running it as we speak (posting from Epiphany). I have now used it for about 15 minutes, and here are my impressions (I will add more stuff as they come up):
- It seems to boot marginally faster than KDE3.2.1 does
- On second startup, the splash-screen got stuck to the screen, and didn't go away untill I clicked on it
- During start-up it complained (twice) about not being able to run screensavers
- I like the default look 'n feel. Very toned down
- I think the selection-box (you know, when you push down LMB and drag) looks better than on KDE. But I don't like the color of selections. When I select something, it becomes too dark. God knows where I can change that
- I tried to change some of the settings. So I double-clicked on "Start Here" and there I saw "System Settings".... which is empty
- I looked at desktop-preferences. Didn't change anything, just looked around. As I closed it, it crashed.
- Related to the item above, I like the bug-reporting tool. But I can't compare it to the KDE's tool, since I have never needed it in KDE .
- In KDE I can access my SMB-shares by using the SMB-kioslave. How do I do that in Gnome?
- Where is the "address-bar" in the filemanager? OK, there's Control+L, but it's confusing and awkward IMO.
- OK, I found an usable filemanager. Instead of browsing filesystem from the desktop, I can do it through the "Applications" menu.
- When I drag a windows over the desktop-icons and back again, the icons disappear! Of course they reappear soon, but still....
- I like GDM alot more than KDM. But how do I add KDE to the sessions-list? KDM did it automatically, GDM does not. |
Wow.
Now if you'd have come up with that in the OTW thread on Gnome options, I'd have had a whole lot more respect for what you were saying in there.
A few interesting bugs/points there. |
Back then I didn't have Gnome installed . I still like KDE better, but I tried to be as objective as possible with my analysis. I think I'll keep poking around Gnome for few days at least, but I don't see myself switching over. Yes, I can understand why many prefer Gnome, but I can also see, why I prefer KDE  .
I have found the same annoynace in Gnome that many Gnome-users find in KDE: There are some settings I would like to change, and I don't know where I could do that. But, like it is with KDE, if I used Gnome for a longer period of time, I would learn where to make those changes. The bad thing in the Gnome-approac is that the settings are divided between two places: the preferences-panels and Gconf. In KDE, they are all in one place (Control Center). Granted, that can make Control Center look a bit intimidating to new users, but I like the fact that I can do all my configuration from one place, instead of two different places.
_________________
My tech-blog | My other blog |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
robmoss
Retired Dev
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 2634
Location: Jesus College, Oxford
|
| Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 2:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Evangelion wrote: | | robmoss2k wrote: | | That's not my problem - I just genuinely don't like KDE. I honestly think that KDE isn't awesome. I know why some people think it is, but that doesn't stop me disagreeing with them. For a start, it's unbelievably bloated... and 10 years of Windows made me hate bloatware with a passion! |
How exactly is it "bloated"? It has been getting faster and less resource-hungy with each release since KDE2-series). |
That sodding splash-screen... that bug's been floating around for ages. I stopped the splash-screen loading when I started using GNOME 2.3, and it's still gone; the reason I got rid of it was precisely that. And before you ask, no I can't remember how I disabled it!
TBH I haven't tried KDE 3.2 - my little P200MMX doesn't like compiling things that big. I'm sure once it's compiled about three days after I set it off it would be better than 3.1, but right now it just takes too long. My Athlon XP is a little more mission-critical, and it has GNOME 2.6 installed. I'm loathe to screw things up on there by installing a DE I don't need. But I did try KDE 3.1.x a while back, and it was just sloooow. Or, at least, compared to GNOME 2.4 on a P200MMX, it was slow. Needed far too much RAM to do very little. 
_________________
Reality is for those who can't face Science Fiction.
emerge -U will kill your Gentoo
ecatmur, Lord of Portage Bash Scripts |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ecatmur
Advocate
Joined: 20 Oct 2003
Posts: 3595
Location: Edinburgh
|
| Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 2:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | - On second startup, the splash-screen got stuck to the screen, and didn't go away untill I clicked on it |
That can happen; it's a minor annoyance but you get used to it. Hopefully it'll be fixed to auto timeout soon.
| Quote: | | - During start-up it complained (twice) about not being able to run screensavers |
Is this because you haven't installed xscreensaver? What were the messages?
| Quote: | | - I think the selection-box (you know, when you push down LMB and drag) looks better than on KDE. But I don't like the color of selections. When I select something, it becomes too dark. God knows where I can change that |
I don't think you can without hacking the source. This is Gnome, after all.
| Quote: | | - I tried to change some of the settings. So I double-clicked on "Start Here" and there I saw "System Settings".... which is empty |
You need gnome-system-tools, which is not a default part of the Gnome desktop.
| Quote: | | - I looked at desktop-preferences. Didn't change anything, just looked around. As I closed it, it crashed. |
Ouch. Crashing sucks.
| Quote: | | - In KDE I can access my SMB-shares by using the SMB-kioslave. How do I do that in Gnome? |
With the SMB gnome-vfs-plugin. Applications->Network Servers is the place to start.
| Quote: | | - When I drag a windows over the desktop-icons and back again, the icons disappear! Of course they reappear soon, but still.... |
Odd - is your system under high load?
| Quote: | | - I like GDM alot more than KDM. But how do I add KDE to the sessions-list? KDM did it automatically, GDM does not. |
You can copy .desktop files from /usr/kde/3.2/share/apps/kdm/sessions/ to /usr/share/xsessions/. Or even easier, you can edit /etc/X11/gdm/gdm.conf and add /usr/kde/3.2/share/apps/kdm/sessions/ to the SessionDesktopDir= line.
_________________
No more cruft
dep: Revdeps that work
Using command-line ACCEPT_KEYWORDS? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ecatmur
Advocate
Joined: 20 Oct 2003
Posts: 3595
Location: Edinburgh
|
| Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 2:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| robmoss2k wrote: |
That sodding splash-screen... that bug's been floating around for ages. I stopped the splash-screen loading when I started using GNOME 2.3, and it's still gone; the reason I got rid of it was precisely that. And before you ask, no I can't remember how I disabled it!
|
Desktop Preferences->Advanced->Sessions->Session Options->Show splash screen
_________________
No more cruft
dep: Revdeps that work
Using command-line ACCEPT_KEYWORDS? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ecatmur
Advocate
Joined: 20 Oct 2003
Posts: 3595
Location: Edinburgh
|
| Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 2:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Evangelion wrote: | | The bad thing in the Gnome-approac is that the settings are divided between two places: the preferences-panels and Gconf. In KDE, they are all in one place (Control Center). Granted, that can make Control Center look a bit intimidating to new users, but I like the fact that I can do all my configuration from one place, instead of two different places. |
Well, you *can* do all your settings in the gconf-editor. But TBH I hate to use that thing when I don't have to.
_________________
No more cruft
dep: Revdeps that work
Using command-line ACCEPT_KEYWORDS? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Evangelion
Veteran
Joined: 31 May 2002
Posts: 1087
Location: Helsinki, Finland
|
| Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 3:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ecatmur wrote: | | Quote: | | - During start-up it complained (twice) about not being able to run screensavers |
Is this because you haven't installed xscreensaver? What were the messages? |
I think it was something related to permissions, but I'm not sure. I haven't seen that error since the first start-up
| Quote: | | Quote: | | - I think the selection-box (you know, when you push down LMB and drag) looks better than on KDE. But I don't like the color of selections. When I select something, it becomes too dark. God knows where I can change that |
I don't think you can without hacking the source. This is Gnome, after all. |
Aww, crap! I would have liked it light blue (or something) instead.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | - I looked at desktop-preferences. Didn't change anything, just looked around. As I closed it, it crashed. |
Ouch. Crashing sucks. |
Well FWIW, it crashed when I was closing the window, so no harm done.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | - In KDE I can access my SMB-shares by using the SMB-kioslave. How do I do that in Gnome? |
With the SMB gnome-vfs-plugin. Applications->Network Servers is the place to start. |
I remember that I saw a place called "Network servers" but IIRC it was empty. I'm not on my Linux-machine right now, so I can't double-check
| Quote: | | Quote: | | - When I drag a windows over the desktop-icons and back again, the icons disappear! Of course they reappear soon, but still.... |
Odd - is your system under high load? |
It might be. It's a 300Mhz P2-laptop, so I guess running either KDE or Gnome on it could be intrepeted as "high load"
| Quote: | | Quote: | | - I like GDM alot more than KDM. But how do I add KDE to the sessions-list? KDM did it automatically, GDM does not. |
You can copy .desktop files from /usr/kde/3.2/share/apps/kdm/sessions/ to /usr/share/xsessions/. Or even easier, you can edit /etc/X11/gdm/gdm.conf and add /usr/kde/3.2/share/apps/kdm/sessions/ to the SessionDesktopDir= line. |
Thanks
_________________
My tech-blog | My other blog |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ecatmur
Advocate
Joined: 20 Oct 2003
Posts: 3595
Location: Edinburgh
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mallchin
l33t
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 655
Location: United Kingdom
|
| Posted: Mon May 31, 2004 1:54 pm Post subject: Re: Giving Gnome a spin and me a headache! |
|
|
| ebrostig wrote: |
So here I am, with a useless Gnome installation and another confirmation that Gnome is worthless!
Erik |
People must have way too much time available to read all of the pages of a thread, I unfortunately don't, so I don't know what answers have been given to your problems, but I am assuming they have had adequate critisism.
Personally I run Gnome 2.6 on an amd64 box and have no issues. I agree there are a couple of bugs, namely the splashscreen not disappearing and the 'Start-Here' menus being rather empty in places, but this isn't too much of an issue to me.
I certainly didn't have any of the issues you faced, and have translucent auto-hiding panels, neat looking window title fonts and an array of other features I adore. All in all I am baffled as to your futile attempts to discredit Gnome.
One must be prepared to put in a certain ammount of effort to become accustomed with thier environment, expecting it to unfold exactly as one expects before them is hardly fair. Nothing in life is perfect, and KDE is hardly the epitimy of this either.
Take a light-hearted step back and see Gnome for what it is. It works for me fine, and I don't have *any* of the issues you faced.
Long live Gnome!
_________________
6700 @ 2.66GHz, 4Gb RAM, 2 x 500Gb, 8800 GTX, PhysX, X-Fi, 24" Widescreen, Tux mascot |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
headache
Apprentice
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 226
|
| Posted: Mon May 31, 2004 2:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I like some of the ideas behind Gnome, but not where Gnome is heading today. That is my personal opinions before you all flame me
I have however been spending a few days now getting Enlightenment to the point were I want it.
Evidence is a sweet filemanager btw, better than the spatial thingy in Gnome as it behaves the way it is expected to (That is if you are not a hardcore gnome and the New HIG fan )
The problem ofcourse with E is the extremly slow development but as far as speed is concerned, nothing beats E.
For some reasons that I can not explain, I find the themes available for E more visually pleasing than Gnome, KDE and XFCE4.
_________________
"I'd rather have a President who does it to a woman than one who does it to his country" -- Shirley Maclaine
Liberal (adj.): Free from bigotry; open to progress; tolerant of others. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
_cookie
n00b
Joined: 13 Sep 2004
Posts: 8
Location: Ontario
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ebrostig wrote: | | shm wrote: | | ebrostig wrote: | | chrisis wrote: | hmm. I don't have any hassles with gnome, but I admit I haven't tried to do the stuff you are doing. Maybe I should!
Have you tried typing in the .directory into the file open dialogue? |
There is no field to enter a name or directory into, just panels showing directories and files
Erik |
try control-L |
Oh that's sweet!
A hidden show hidden files command! Just what every DE needs!
Not just that, but I have to type in the whole friggin path? Why the heck can't i get this file dialog to show hidden files?
Erik |
if you dislike gnome so much, why do you insist on running it? are you just doing this to spark some kinda controversy, like christ. i've spent the last hour and a half of my day off, reading about how you hate gnome so much, and whatnot, and you continue to run it. please, just stfu. christ. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jonnevers
Veteran
Joined: 02 Jan 2003
Posts: 1594
Location: Gentoo64 land
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 8:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| _cookie wrote: | | ebrostig wrote: | | shm wrote: | | ebrostig wrote: | | chrisis wrote: | hmm. I don't have any hassles with gnome, but I admit I haven't tried to do the stuff you are doing. Maybe I should!
Have you tried typing in the .directory into the file open dialogue? |
There is no field to enter a name or directory into, just panels showing directories and files
Erik |
try control-L |
Oh that's sweet!
A hidden show hidden files command! Just what every DE needs!
Not just that, but I have to type in the whole friggin path? Why the heck can't i get this file dialog to show hidden files?
Erik |
if you dislike gnome so much, why do you insist on running it? are you just doing this to spark some kinda controversy, like christ. i've spent the last hour and a half of my day off, reading about how you hate gnome so much, and whatnot, and you continue to run it. please, just stfu. christ. |
I'm not entirely sure this applies but I leanred just over this last weekend that in the new File Open dialog, if you right click in the directory listing, there is single option called "[ ] show hidden files", clicking it shows the hidden files. Of course, i sat at the dialog for a little while trying to figure out how to see hidden files (i needed to get into $HOME/.icons ) and i thought to myself i should be able to right click and set that. I laughed pretty hard when i did right click and the option was there.
anyway, i'm sorry to bump this thread back onto the boards as this thread is totally useless and narrowminded. please people use what you like, and give the developers a rest. show at least a little appreciation for them. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PowerFactor
Veteran
Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1693
Location: out of it
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 9:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Way to dig up the dead _cookie. Yes this thread is useless. So why did you feel the need to drag it back to the front page from the depths of the archives? I wouldn't even reply but it's still at the top anyway.
Say what you want to ebrostig, he probably isn't reading it. He got himself banned a couple months ago for another issue. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
skomae
n00b
Joined: 04 Dec 2004
Posts: 6
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Many people, especially linux users, like to have their stuff set up in one particular way. While I agree that Gnome is not very user-friendly to the advanced user, I believe that the Gnome developers are trying to create a desktop with intuitive default settings for people who have little experience with computers. In that, I believe Gnome succeeds. It is difficult for developers to be able to please everyone. Gnome developers should provide Advanced Preferences for those who care to really customize Gnome, but I think that in general, Gnome is nice and simple. Preferences tend to be where they should be (except for those hidden in gconf), and given more time, Gnome will probably be at the front of the battle against Microsoft and Windows for the desktop computer. If we want more commercial Linux software, games in particular, this is a good trend. Not everybody wants a million preferences or menus to sort through - they just want to get things done as simply as possible. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dbaigrie
n00b
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 4
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jonnevers wrote: | | _cookie wrote: | | ebrostig wrote: | | shm wrote: | | ebrostig wrote: | | chrisis wrote: | hmm. I don't have any hassles with gnome, but I admit I haven't tried to do the stuff you are doing. Maybe I should!
Have you tried typing in the .directory into the file open dialogue? |
There is no field to enter a name or directory into, just panels showing directories and files
Erik |
try control-L |
Oh that's sweet!
A hidden show hidden files command! Just what every DE needs!
Not just that, but I have to type in the whole friggin path? Why the heck can't i get this file dialog to show hidden files?
Erik |
if you dislike gnome so much, why do you insist on running it? are you just doing this to spark some kinda controversy, like christ. i've spent the last hour and a half of my day off, reading about how you hate gnome so much, and whatnot, and you continue to run it. please, just stfu. christ. |
I'm not entirely sure this applies but I leanred just over this last weekend that in the new File Open dialog, if you right click in the directory listing, there is single option called "[ ] show hidden files", clicking it shows the hidden files. Of course, i sat at the dialog for a little while trying to figure out how to see hidden files (i needed to get into $HOME/.icons ) and i thought to myself i should be able to right click and set that. I laughed pretty hard when i did right click and the option was there.
anyway, i'm sorry to bump this thread back onto the boards as this thread is totally useless and narrowminded. please people use what you like, and give the developers a rest. show at least a little appreciation for them. |
Has anyone tried RIGHT-CLICKING in the file dialog!
Ther is an option show hidden files
I can't believe no one tried this
_________________
--------------------------------------
The sign of a truly advanced intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing thoughts and still be able to function rationally. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
Desktop Environments
