Time to replace the cpu heatsink...

Plastic · l33t Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 649

I knew I should have gotten a third-party heatsink/fan when I built my new computer, instead of getting that retail-box set with the supposedly "AMD certified" heatsink. Today, while I was ZSNESing, my computer's internal speaker began emitting some interesting beeps (high-low-high-low...). The computer had been on the whole day, but it wasn't like it had been in the sun. Still, being the sane person I sometimes am (but more protecting my investment in my 2800 Barton chip and nForce2 motherboard) I immediately pulled the plug. According to bioscentral.com, the beep code means that my CPU temperature had became dangerousely high (somwhere between 65 and 75 degrees celsius). So, I need some advice. Which heatsink should I buy? Does it matter what kind of thermal grease I get? Is there a good guide to putting the chip on the motherboard? (mine came already on, and I've heard that air bubbles can kill your chip). Last time I buy a retail-box cpu

Rainmaker · Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 1:50 am Post subject:

Look in your BIOS, I have the same setup (2500 Barton @ MSI nforce2 motherboard) which, during a heatwave this summer, had the same "problem"

I found that the default setting was 65 degrees or so. Setting the "warning tempreture" to 75 degrees (which is still quite conservative, the processor is meant to run stable up to 90 degrees) kinda fixed it. Only when playing batllefield 1942 I ran into the problem again...
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Plastic · l33t Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 649

I know, but is it really healthy for a CPU to be running at 70 degrees? The summer is only beginning, and it's going to be hot. I want to be sure that the cpu will be okay.

DrKayBee · Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 2:21 am Post subject:

From my experience, anything above 50 deg C causes the compiler to exit from overheating... usually seen during high computation events.

Have you tried to *clean* your old heatsink?
Pull it off the chip, clean it good and get some thermal gel to put between it and the chip. The heatsink has no wear and tear really, so you might get a little more mileage from your old one, if the heat transfer is being limited by any dust.

If you have an overheating problem the interval between your crashes (or beeps) will go down quickly...

KB

Plastic · l33t Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 649

I guess I just don't trust this heatsink. I've had it for only 2/3 of a year, I don't think it should be doing this. I found these on the web. Will they do the job?

Here's the heatsink that i'm looking at and here's the thermal grease that I'm thinking will work with it.
Again, the processor is a Athlon 2800. I have two case fans inside my case, but I'm not sure if I'm getting the best airflow because the computer is semi closed in (yes, it is in a place where it draws a lot of dust, but I just cleaned inside of it a week or two ago...).

DrKayBee · Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 3:06 am Post subject:

Im unclear on how you will fix it onto the chip. But the reviews of the heatsink on newegg.com look good, and I've seen one similar to it at microcenter. Arctic silver is very good - I use it myself.

Go for it - check if you have space in the case though - that thing is bigger than it looks in the picture.

Cheers,
KB

Crewz · n00b Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 4

System: AMD 2800+ barton + MSI k7n2 delta

I'm seeing the same heat problems with the AMD stock fan. After talking to a friend who has resolved the problem. Gave me this info:

Arctic Silver thermal and
Zallman CNPS7000A-AICU fan

Fan is smaller then the one your looking at, not as quiet but close.
Its geared for P4,AMD and AMD64.

I've installed and used the model your looking at... make sure you have the space for it...nothing around the cpu cradle, like capacitors, etc...

P.S. im waiting for parts to arrive, you should see the big fan thats pointed into the case at moment :/

albright · Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 11:08 pm Post subject:

I have those zalman "flower" coolers in two computers
(amd 1700 and 2200) and they work very well if you
have the room inside your case to install them.
Very quiet too

Plastic · l33t Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 649

Thanks guys, but I decided on an OCZ Gladiator 3 and the Ceramique thermal stuff. It should give me some overclockability (for the winter). This is the first time that I will be installing a heatsink. Any advice? (spreading thermal paste, what not to do, etc...)

DrKayBee · Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 2:51 am Post subject:

Tip from the Arctic silver guys:

http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_instructions.htm

smart · Guru Joined: 19 Nov 2002 Posts: 455

Hi all,

just want to be a spoiler here

Thermal grease is generally not the best heat transfer compound you can get. Actually it's worse than many things you'll find in the kitchen. Then what makes it good ? It's not drying, it's not cracking, it doesn't corrode nor does it cause corrosion and it's non conductive. The differences in thermal transfer between all those glorious different brands is marginal and the point in the usage of this stuff and the best you can achieve is to avoid it as much as you can. That is use it as thin as possible and that means to get your heatsink as close as possible to the die. That grease shall just replace possible air in between the heatsink and the die. Air is so bad at heat transfer (well it's used as isolation

) that even this awful smear is better.

With respect to heatsinks, you can find more differences in their quality and the boxed one is not the worst really. Given that the heatsink itself is not of awful quality, the biggest differences in specs for them in heat removal is directly in line to the amount of air that frogbender on top is pushing or pulling through. What this needs to work is cool air, thus the first thing you should check is the temperature inside your case. You need to get that warm air out and some fresh in. That is in the frist place the most effective thing to do. So before bothering with that fancy heatsink, just try to mount a case fan if you've got the space somewhere near the CPU.

Again, if you have the space in your case, what really blows the box is bound to that. For me what has proven FAR superior to bathing in grease and mounting the wierdest stuff onto the CPU was optimizing that intake/outblow thing. There are airducts available on the market and you can combine them with some heatsinks. I chose these:

http://www.viperlair.com/reviews/case_cool/other/heatsinks/aerocool/deepimpact/
http://www.frozen-silicon.ch/prodpics/cpu_tunnel_kit_mont.jpg

The good thing with the cooler is that the fan mounts to the side. If the duct needs to go on top of a sink that means a really big tower must fit inside the case.

In between the cooler and the duct there is a fan and one another mounting the duct to the case, both blowing out (thus pulling the air from the heatsink instead of blowing across). As a result all the heat from the CPU is extracted from the case directly and thus, the case is quite cool inside which makes the graphics card happy at the same time. But remember, this takes a lot of space.

Now go figure what grease to choose

LeTene · Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 9:53 am Post subject:

I totally agree with smart here - that's why I have a Coolermaster Aero 7. I have two case exhaust fans in-line with this to suck out the warm air, and a side-mounted fan to get ccol air in. My Barton XP 2500+ runs at 39 degrees C with this setup in my midi case.
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klarnox · Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 7:20 pm Post subject:

The best thermal paste I've found is the cheap stuff you can get at Radio Shack... and yes I've actually compared it with some of the (much) more expensive pastes & gels. It doesn't dry out easily like many I've used and is non-conducting so if you're a little sloppy (like me) you don't have to worry about it to much.

nx12 · Apprentice Joined: 14 Jan 2004 Posts: 193

Zalman Cu7000 is the way to go. I have 52ºC with 2 case fans and P4@3,65GHz, running without any breaks seti@home 7/24. And what I like most, is that it's really silent.
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dave_euser · n00b Joined: 07 Jul 2002 Posts: 42

I probably wouldn't change the alarm temperature in your bios...if it's set (at what appears to be) low, it is for a reason.....during testing, processors like this go through extensive thermal cycling (equivalent to not running your machine and then playing some high-end 3d game) to determine it's effect on life....

Because of the different materials in the CPU itself (the actual traces vs. the package vs. the filler etc), there can be quite a bit of shear inside the device because of different CTEs (coefficient of thermal expansion)......so letting things run hotter may work for now, but eventually you'll get cracks in the weak points, that could escape stress relief areas.....and the next time you go to pull out the chip, a trace breaks....not something repairable at all.....

Crewz · n00b Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 4

I tend not to agree, after my previous post, i finaly got my Fan and my Arctic silver 2, and im happy to report that the cpu went from 50-52c idle to 25-27c idle. The fan is at full capacity which is around 2678RPM.
very quiet

System:

CPU: Amd Barton 2800+
Mobo: Asus A7N8X
Ram: 1gig 400Mhz
FAN: Zalman CNPS7000A-AICu
Grease: Arctic Silver II
Video: MSI GFX5700 VTD256
Sound: SBLive
DVD-RW: Sony
HDs:1x80G, 1x60G, 1x40G (all maxtors)

smart · Guru Joined: 19 Nov 2002 Posts: 455

Nate_S · Guru Joined: 18 Mar 2004 Posts: 414

smart, are you familar with artic silver? it's good stuff, and if you take a look at their instructions (DrKayBee gave the link,) they do indeed recommend putting as little as possiable. their artic silver series, which I've been happy with, is like 99% silver, so while it's not as good as direct metal to metal contact, it doesn't hurt it a lot.

I totally agree, however, that adaquate case cooling is definitly the first step. Think about it: the absolute pinnacle of air cooling is cooling it to the exact tempature of the air you're blowing at it. As this almost never happens without water cooling, you're only cooling a percentage of the tempature of the air in the case. so if your case is too hot, no amount of copper on the chip is going to make up for that.

On my Athlon M 2400 that I'm about to overclock, I've got one of these:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=35-108-020&depa=1
with the fan stolen from this (which is a really nice cooler in it's own right):
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=35-106-035&depa=1
with this between them:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=35-100-007&depa=1

Gorski · n00b Joined: 16 May 2004 Posts: 11

Hi,

First don't worry for the thermal grease, this is included in the Zalman package, but don't abuse as it is used to correct the ventirad face, not for thermal purpose.
I have changed for a Zalman 6000 full copper for my Athlon XP 2600 and it works fine (I have replace the 92mm by a 120mm).
But today I will clearly go for a 7000 AlCu (the full copper is to heavy), but be sure your motherboard is compatible (Zalman gives you a list). Few days ago Zalman presented the 7700 Cu: a 7000 evolution with a 120mm ventilator replacing the 92mm.

A good think for the 7000 is also the price (40euros), not expensive for the quality.