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Dr Gonzo
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Joined: 31 Jan 2004
Posts: 276
Location: Austin, TX
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 Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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I hate to put it this way, but I'm just going to have to be blunt here:
Corporations are contributing massively to Linux. When you have the likes of IBM, Novell, etc. contributing code to the Linux kernel to make it scale better, there's obviously going to be more going on. BSD is developed by a small core of devs, which is a good thing IMO because it keeps it tightly integrated, but I think it makes Linux the more mature kernel in 5 years. Every advance that IBM makes for its own stuff will get put into Linux (at the chagrin of SCO... we'll have forgotten about that BS in 5 years.)
I have no problem with BSD or BSD users. I've tried BSD on my server. It was ok, but I've now got Debian on it as it only took me about an hour to get it up and running everything I need with stability.
Gentoo is my desktop OS. It's a bit bleeding edge, but if you're interested in security, I suggest you take a look at what the Gentoo Hardened guys are doing: http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/hardened/index.xml
Good luck with the switch if you go through with it.
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allucid
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Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 1314
Location: atlanta
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| fernandotcl wrote: | | allucid wrote: | | Are the *BSD's really losing ground? I am going to set up a personal server soon and I had planned on going with OpenBSD because I have always heard great things about OpenBSD as a server OS. Recent reviews seem to suggest this is still the case. This is an interesting topic, though. I'll keep on eye on this thread. Currently I am 90% convinced OpenBSD would be a better choice. I plan on setting it up two weeks from now. I should probably do a little more research before then. |
Don't use OpenBSD! I saw some reviews, and although it's secure, it has the worst performance between the BSDs and also scales very bad. It was so slow that in most graphs it didn't even appeared. If you're going to use a BSD, use FreeBSD or NetBSD (FreeBSD seems to be the best between them). |
Sources? |
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monkey with a keyboard
n00b
Joined: 22 Jul 2004
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | hate to put it this way, but I'm just going to have to be blunt here:
Corporations are contributing massively to Linux. When you have the likes of IBM, Novell, etc. contributing code to the Linux kernel to make it scale better, there's obviously going to be more going on. BSD is developed by a small core of devs, which is a good thing IMO because it keeps it tightly integrated, but I think it makes Linux the more mature kernel in 5 years. Every advance that IBM makes for its own stuff will get put into Linux (at the chagrin of SCO... we'll have forgotten about that BS in 5 years.)
I have no problem with BSD or BSD users. I've tried BSD on my server. It was ok, but I've now got Debian on it as it only took me about an hour to get it up and running everything I need with stability.
Gentoo is my desktop OS. It's a bit bleeding edge, but if you're interested in security, I suggest you take a look at what the Gentoo Hardened guys are doing: http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/hardened/index.xml
Good luck with the switch if you go through with it. |
well, that's pretty much my thinking.... the corporate support. I don't really care about how long it takes to set it up. I care about how good it is once it is set up. What's nice about Debian is that it's up there with RH and Suse in terms of popularity and support. I like Gentoo for it's portage, but to be honest, portage is NOT a requirement of mine. At this point, what bothers me more than anything about BSD is that I can't just buy a server and expect it to work on BSD. I have to base my purchase around the OS. That's time consuming and ass-backwards (for lack of a better phrase). On the other hand, Linux is similar in a lot of ways, however with HP, Dell, and others supporting Linux, it seems that it is getting easier. Even drivers and apps that are supported on Linux don't seem to get ported to BSD sometimes. For example APC monitoring. I can't monitor APC battery-backUPS with BSD. I can however on Linux.
What I want to know is, "Is linux comparable to BSD at this point in time in terms of stability and security?" |
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reisio
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Posts: 121
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| monkey with a keyboard wrote: | | Is linux comparable to BSD at this point in time in terms of stability and security? |
I'd say BSD to Linux is not as much of a gap as Linux to Windows, but BSD is surely still more secure.
You have to remember that BSD essentially _is_ Unix and is directly descended from its 30+ (or at least 27+ [BSD only]) years of development. |
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monkey with a keyboard
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Joined: 22 Jul 2004
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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yeah, that's exactly why I started using BSD to begin with.
When you say Linux to Windows, I think stability and security is better on Linux...... no? Your statement made it sound like you think it to be the other way around.
Third party vendor support is a whole other ballpark though. |
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Dr Gonzo
Apprentice
Joined: 31 Jan 2004
Posts: 276
Location: Austin, TX
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Is linux comparable to BSD at this point in time in terms of stability and security? |
The short answer is, yes. Debian, especially. Their stable distribution is rock solid. They also issue security updates as frequently as necessary and these updates are installed this simply:
| Code: | | apt-get update; apt-get upgrade |
Gentoo is pretty good about these things, AFAIK. The update there is just as simple:
| Code: | | emerge sync; emerge -u world |
There are also some other distros that are just as easy, but as far as stability goes, it's hard to beat Debian, Gentoo, or even Slackware. Slack is nice, altough updating is not quite as easy by default. There are some tools out there that make it easier.
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"Families is where our nation finds hope, where wings take dream."
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placeholder
Advocate
Joined: 07 Feb 2004
Posts: 2500
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Seeing that both Debian and Gentoo get many updates, I'd say that they'd both be about equally as secure. I could be wrong, but it seems highly plausible. |
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reisio
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Posts: 121
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| monkey with a keyboard wrote: | | When you say Linux to Windows, I think stability and security is better on Linux...... no? |
yes, of course
| monkey with a keyboard wrote: | | Your statement made it sound like you think it to be the other way around. |
well if the "gap" means "security gap" and the gap between BSD to Linux is smaller than the gap between Linux to Windows, logically there is no other way to read that statement...but I digress, it's surely full of bad grammar, just like this nice long sucker $
Last edited by reisio on Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:15 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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r4st3r
n00b
Joined: 23 Jul 2004
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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Hiya everyone,
Hey maybe it's the wrong place to ask, but right now I have a P3 450 box acting as my router using Smoothwall. I was thinking recently of switching it over to OpenBSD, is there an equivalent "distribution" of OpenBSD for this reason or a tutorial on how to set a dedicated box to act as a router using Open?
Thanks, sorry for posting off topic |
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reisio
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Posts: 121
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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| r4st3r wrote: | Hiya everyone,
Hey maybe it's the wrong place to ask, but right now I have a P3 450 box acting as my router using Smoothwall. I was thinking recently of switching it over to OpenBSD, is there an equivalent "distribution" of OpenBSD for this reason or a tutorial on how to set a dedicated box to act as a router using Open?
Thanks, sorry for posting off topic |
openbsd.org would be the place to look for such information |
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fernandotcl
Veteran
Joined: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 1396
Location: Sao Paulo, Brazil
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| allucid wrote: | | fernandotcl wrote: | | allucid wrote: | | Are the *BSD's really losing ground? I am going to set up a personal server soon and I had planned on going with OpenBSD because I have always heard great things about OpenBSD as a server OS. Recent reviews seem to suggest this is still the case. This is an interesting topic, though. I'll keep on eye on this thread. Currently I am 90% convinced OpenBSD would be a better choice. I plan on setting it up two weeks from now. I should probably do a little more research before then. |
Don't use OpenBSD! I saw some reviews, and although it's secure, it has the worst performance between the BSDs and also scales very bad. It was so slow that in most graphs it didn't even appeared. If you're going to use a BSD, use FreeBSD or NetBSD (FreeBSD seems to be the best between them). |
Sources? |
Sorry, I can't remember. But if I find it I'll post a link here. |
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skyfolly
Apprentice
Joined: 16 Jul 2003
Posts: 245
Location: Dongguan & Hong Kong, PRC
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| Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 9:19 am Post subject: |
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i want my server with FreeBSD too, worth the hussle? Not really.since they are nearly the same.
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I am the only being whose doom
No tongue would ask no eye would mourn
I never caused a thought of gloom
A smile of joy since I was born.
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Deebster
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 16 Nov 2003
Posts: 126
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| Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| fernandotcl wrote: | | allucid wrote: | | fernandotcl wrote: | | Don't use OpenBSD! I saw some reviews, and although it's secure, it has the worst performance between the BSDs and also scales very bad. It was so slow that in most graphs it didn't even appeared. If you're going to use a BSD, use FreeBSD or NetBSD (FreeBSD seems to be the best between them). |
Sources? |
Sorry, I can't remember. But if I find it I'll post a link here. |
I remember that link: http://bulk.fefe.de/scalability/. It was in the last big BSD thread in this forum.
The impressive thing about that article was that the NetBSD people fixed all the problems found in the test within a fortnight and ended up outperforming FreeBDS!
Last edited by Deebster on Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:35 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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kamagurka
Veteran
Joined: 25 Jan 2004
Posts: 1026
Location: /germany/munich
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| Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 11:00 am Post subject: |
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404
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If you loved me, you'd all kill yourselves today.
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r4st3r
n00b
Joined: 23 Jul 2004
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 11:47 am Post subject: Here's why I ask |
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Hey everyone,
The reason I ask--instead of googling and wading through possibly outdated forums--is to see if any knows right off the top of their head and has actually no B.S. done it. Google's great, but it nice to talk to someone who's done what you're asking. Especially on something as important as your trusty router :)
Sometimes web searching feels like the "Please press 1 now if you are calling from a touch tone phone >>beep<< ... short pause... thank you for pressing ... short pause... 1 (in a different voice).
Btw, I've used FreeBSD before and had a great overall impression of the system. What made me quit playing with it some months back was lack of java SDK support. That's probably fixed now. Plus I'm a hobbyist hacker, not a "my life depends on this stuff" IT professional. |
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Deebster
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 16 Nov 2003
Posts: 126
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