TV-Tuner card and XBox?

tristure · Apprentice Joined: 30 Oct 2003 Posts: 270 Location: France

Hi,

I read a thread the other day about PS2 emulation ; well, most of the thread was quite pointless since the author kept talking about cracking games and all, the thread has been locked since, but some people there gave a good suggestion : rather than relying on emulators that work not that good at the moment, you can actually plug a console in a TV tuner card and then play the games normally on your monitor, as if it was a TV.

It sounds very interesting, because I really like console games, yet did not want to buy one because I don't have a TV and don't have any room for that at home (very small apartment). Now if I can have a console and play it on my monitor it's really really fine.

I would just like to have some information, if any of you guys have already done that.

-I don't really like PS2, I'm more of a Xbox fan. Did any of you try to have the Xbox work through a TV-Tuner Card? How did it work? Does it affect the console's performances? (sound, image...)

-I don't have any PCI slot left on my box for a TV Tuner card, so I would have to buy a new graphic card with TV-Tuner integrated in it. Do you know about some good card (not too expensive)? I have a nvidia GeForce 4MX at the moment, and I would like to have at least the same performance in 3D games + the TV ability.
I did a quick search on the net, most of the graphic cards with integrated TV-Tuner are ATI cards ; it somewhat frightens me because I read many times that ATI Drivers for Linux really suck, whereas Nvidia ones are OK.
So if you have any hint or tip to help me choose that would be great!

-Last thing : how do you get a TV-Tuner to work in Linux? Is it easy? Are there specific programs to do that?

Thanks a lot for your help.

cato` · Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 11:34 am Post subject: Re: TV-Tuner card and XBox?

tristure · Apprentice Joined: 30 Oct 2003 Posts: 270 Location: France

Thanks for the tip!

I searched a while and found some interesting models, especially a external Hercules one that can work even when the computer is off.

Now I don't have much room for another USB device : on my four USB ports I got my MP3 Player, my camera, my PDA and my joystick...
Well I can remove one from time to time but I'm so lazy.

Which brings me back to my initial solution.

A question to all of you ATI cards owners : do ATI drivers for Linux really suck compared to nvidia ones? Are the performances as appalling as I could read here and there?

To tell the truth, the ATI "ALL in wonder" seems very good to me, but I'm afraid that I would lose a lot of graphical performance!

RealNitro · Tux's lil' helper Joined: 01 Jul 2004 Posts: 98

I don't know how 'good' the Nvidia drivers are, but my Radeon 9800 performs nicely. The framerates in windows and linux-games are about the same.

pip · n00b Joined: 22 May 2003 Posts: 22

Unfortunately, there is a conflict between the latest NVIDIA linux drivers (6106) and the software package that lets you capture video from certain cards (rivatv). Until this gets fixed, you would either have to use older NVIDIA drivers (which wouldn't be bad) or go ATi (not sure how the video-in support is for those). To avoid all of this, you could also buy a monitor (likely LCD) that has regular TV inputs (s-video,component,etc.) along with DVI and VGA. This is harder on the budget, but you get a nice monitor too.

Phorem · Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 8:05 pm Post subject:

I recently bought an ATI wonder VE with remote and it rocks. Yes, i have connected a Xbox and a PS2 to the composite port on the card. Both worked well.

I also bought a MSI 5900XT 128 - with TV in. Needless to say, i would NEVER buy an ATI Video card (i.e. 9800 pro) if i knew that the 5900XT existed (now you do so there is no excuse). ATI drivers suck. They suck looooooooong and hard. Buy the 5900XT and use the old 5336 drivers from Nvidia. I used the TV in to see if it worked and does. It works perfect (again using the old nvidia drivers) but i use the ATI Wonder to watch tv or to play console games (which is never). Just my 2 cents.
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Gentoo AMD64 2004.1, AMD64 Athlon 3200, Asus K8V Deluxe, 1 gig 3200 ram, GeForce FX 5900XT 128, ATI Wonder VE Remote, HP 420i DVD+R+RW, HP Scanjet 2200c, Epson Stylus C84

Jamon · Apprentice Joined: 03 May 2002 Posts: 173

How does the ATI TV Wonder VE work in Linux? What software do you use? I was looking at picking that one up.. Thanks!

Jamon
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madmango · Guru Joined: 15 Jul 2003 Posts: 507 Location: PA, USA

In my expierence, the ati drivers are horrible. I don't see how it's economical for you to buy a whole new video card for just getting tv tuner capability.

As mentioned before, buy a usb one. If quality is your main concern, the best tv tuners (and well supported) on the market are the happenauge ones. Since you're running low on usb ports, you can buy an inexpensive usb hub for (i'm too lazy to look up) definetely less than $15. It will duplicate your usb ports with no need for drivers and no real performance penalty.

Usb is the way to go, man. I'm still regretting the day I bought my radeon 9600 pro.
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Phorem · Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:19 pm Post subject:

Jamon, I use the bttv driver and TvTime. Both work very well for such a cheap card. I'm very happy. I even got the remote to work as well! Now, i'm talking about the Tv Cards for ATI, the Video cards still suck with the current drivers. Makes ya wonder what the hell they are doing up here. I would ONLY recommend Nvidia for linux. PERIOD - for now anyway.

Side note : You have to use "modprobe bttv tuner=2" to get it to work with NTSC properly here in Canada. After that it was fine. I even got all the listings from zap2it.com (i think that's it).

Pretty good deal i think for $99 CDN with a remote :-0 .......That works well under linux too (using the ati_remote module now in the current kernels)!!
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Gentoo AMD64 2004.1, AMD64 Athlon 3200, Asus K8V Deluxe, 1 gig 3200 ram, GeForce FX 5900XT 128, ATI Wonder VE Remote, HP 420i DVD+R+RW, HP Scanjet 2200c, Epson Stylus C84

tristure · Apprentice Joined: 30 Oct 2003 Posts: 270 Location: France

@madmango
Thanks for the suggestion.
Well, I'm not looking for the cheapest solution. I'm looking for a cheap-or-not-too-expensive solution, granted that it must fit my needs. :wink:

I think I definitely won't go ATI ; I have enough problems with my soundcard, so I don't want graphic card problems in addition.

Actually my budget is about 150 (+200 for the console itself). Of course there are way cheaper solutions than 150, and I would be glad to save a few euros.
Oh BTW 150 = 150$ (very very roughly...).

Now an external USB hub+tuner is a good solution, and it would cost roughly 100. Good.
My problem is an aesthetics concern. I've got my PC, I will have a console, I have my cable modem. If I add a usb hub and a new tuner, which are probably not very good looking devices, I got heavy risks to drive my girlfriend crazy and finish my life alone. :lol:

(OK being alone could have its advantages, such as much more spare time to play my brand new XBox, but ... oh well...)

Besides I really had difficulties with USb devices, still don't understand exactly why, but I'm not that enthusiastic at the idea of another USB struggle.

I think I will try to make some room for a TV Tuner and my motherboard. I thought of it for a while, and remembered that I got this old PCI modem I never use anymore. I think I'll remove it and replace it by a Tuner.
Internal = Invisible
Invisible = Girlfriend friendly.

(Oh God if only I could get an internal PCI XBox.... :wink:

)

Is quality important for the Tuner card, since I'll directly plug the input of the console in it? It will not have to deal with an antenna signal, and bad reception and all... Will it make a difference?

Thanks again.

madmango · Guru Joined: 15 Jul 2003 Posts: 507 Location: PA, USA

yes. it will definately make a huge difference. A better quality card will give you a truer-to-tv signal. Anything else, and you'll see fuzzies.

Lemmie pull out an old pc upgrade mag, they did a great review of tv tuners that'd help yuo.

Also, get one with a hardware encoder built in. Mine's a crappy software encoder, and I can't record anything without 100% cpu usage.
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madmango · Guru Joined: 15 Jul 2003 Posts: 507 Location: PA, USA

Here you go, mate. The guys at pc upgrade magazine chose the Hauppauge WinTV-PVR-usb2 PVR, at $199 (sorry, i live in teh us). A little pricey for what you're looking for, but this was in December of 2003. After looking around a bit, I'd go for

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=15-116-606&depa=1

this one. It's got you're hardware decoding and is great for playing anything, even watching TV (which is coo'). Hareware decoding means no skipping and no flicker. Mmmm, yummy.
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tristure · Apprentice Joined: 30 Oct 2003 Posts: 270 Location: France

Awesome!
This is exactly what I'm looking for. And it's damn cheap.

It doesn't seem to be available in France right now, though.
I'll order it online I think.

pip · n00b Joined: 22 May 2003 Posts: 22

if you are just looking for the highest quality PCI TV tuner card, the Hauppauge WinTV-PVR 250 seems to be the best. It uses its own drivers http://ivtv.sf.net , and is supported by most of the modern Linux video apps (MythTV, mplayer, tvtime). Prices vary a lot, since there are different OEM, MCE, and retail versions. Under $150 though.[/url]

tristure · Apprentice Joined: 30 Oct 2003 Posts: 270 Location: France

I'm bringing this topic up because I didn't feel like starting a new one.

I read some threads about TV tuner cards on this forums, so as to gather some information and to have a clue how to make this work.

I read some comments which explained that some cards had a delay between reception of the signal and the moment it is displayed ; meaning they are unusable for games since they create lag.

I definitely don't want that. I think it was seen on a PVR 250.
Will all cards with internal decoder create that lag? It would be a pity, because if not I'd have bought a card with internal encoding/decoding, so as not to use all my CPU.

If you happen to use a TV card with a console, could you post what brand/model you use, and tell me what you think about its performance (in games).

Thanks a lot for your feedback!

iverson0881 · Apprentice Joined: 08 Jan 2004 Posts: 285 Location: CA

I have a pvr-350 and well lag is horrendous and its unbareable to be able to play any type of game. So are people with built-in encoders screwed? now way to turn it off?

bigfam · Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:03 am Post subject:

bttv0: using: Askey CPH06X TView99 [card=38,autodetected]

just a cheap bt878-based card i got for about $50 bucks back about five years ago. it works great, no lag with video games (xbox/dreamcast). my only complaint is that the xbox looks better in a regular tv then it does on the pc monitor, just sharper/more crisp. still looks great going through the tuner though

ive always had a problem with the kernel detecting the wrong tuner type and i always have to run a little startup script when the system first boots