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Wilhelm
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 149
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 Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:12 am Post subject: |
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webapp-config is a kewl tool once one takes the time to figure out two things
1. /etc/vhosts/webapp-config
2. webapp-config -I phpmyadmin 2.6.0_p3 -d phpmyadmin -h localhost
But people are conservative and don't like new things. I bet you all hated emerge when it first arrived.
Linux needs user-friendlyness since it is getting unmanagable with all those packages. Portage is easy for installing programs. webapp-config is equivalently easy for installing webb-applications.
So to all that hate webapp-config RTFM!!!  . |
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tecknojunky
Veteran
Joined: 19 Oct 2002
Posts: 1937
Location: Montréal
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 6:12 am Post subject: |
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I agree with all that you said. Your are forgetting just one thing that is what I find the most annoying, it's that webapp-config is imposed to me. I really genuinely gave it a shot, but I would just like to be able to opt-out of it and still beneficiate portage's ability to notice me when a new version is in.
btw, before Gentoo, I was using a slackware base on which I was compiling sources all by myself. Portage and it's dependencies checking was a blessing. I would have hoped that it remain more of a tool converging the distros, rather than distinguish itself as a distro on it's own, but that's another story
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(7 of 9) Installing star-trek/species-8.4.7.2::talax. |
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Chris W
l33t
Joined: 25 Jun 2002
Posts: 972
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:02 am Post subject: |
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You have a couple of options:- Turn on USE=vhost and never run webapp-config yourself. In this arrangement web apps will install to a holding area and you can manually complete installation into your favourite location. "emerge -pu world" will notify you when a new web application rev is released allowing you to update it.
- Remove vhost from USE and ignore webapp-config. Emerge-ing a web app will install it into the holding area and put a copy into the /var/www/localhost directory structure just like the old-style web app ebuilds (only more consistently). "emerge -pu world" will notify you when a new web application revision is released and allow you to update if you choose.
Either way, you never have to run webapp-config. The second option is opting out, I really cannot see the fuss.
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Cheers,
Chris W
"Common sense: The collection of prejudices acquired by age 18." -- Einstein |
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cyberpatrol
Apprentice
Joined: 18 Sep 2003
Posts: 161
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Chris W wrote: | | The second option is opting out, I really cannot see the fuss. |
No, the second option is not opting out. Opting out means that webapp-config is not being used and not being installed. The second option doesn't mean that webapp-config is not being used and not being installed. With the second option webapp-config is still used and installed but it installs the webapps first into its own directory (/usr/share/webapp-config I think) and then copies them automatically into the destination directory (/var/www/localhost) so you have them installed twice which takes unnecessary diskspace and makes the whole thing unnecessarily more complicated. Another problem is that webapp-config somehow manages the webapp's config files and it's not really documented how this is be done and which config files in which directories have to be changed.
Webapp-config maybe good if someone uses many vhosts and saves these vhosts in a consistent directory structure (e.g. /var/www/<domainname>/...). For everyone else webapp-config is just far too complicated and wastes unnecessarily disk space.
Another problem is that it's not really documented. And, please, don't tell me about the manpage again. It's only understandable for the webapp developers and maybe for people who have time for days to RTFM and read between the lines and to do many trial and error installations.
Why is it such a problem just to make a new USE flag which tells portage to install and to use webapp-config or not to install and to use webapp-config?
And why must people be forced to use such a program if there are so many people who don't need such a program and who only have problems and disadvantages and no advantage of it? |
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stuherbert
Retired Dev
Joined: 17 Aug 2003
Posts: 47
Location: Pontypridd, South Wales
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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Please understand that Portage simply isn't capable of correctly installing web-based packages on its own.
Best regards,
Stu
_________________
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stuart@gentoo.org
Gentoo Developer
Trustee, Gentoo Foundation
http://blog.stuartherbert.com |
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LucyC
n00b
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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Hi cyberpatrol,
| cyberpatrol wrote: |
With the second option webapp-config is still used and installed but it installs the webapps first into its own directory (/usr/share/webapp-config I think) and then copies them automatically into the destination directory (/var/www/localhost) so you have them installed twice which takes unnecessary diskspace and makes the whole thing unnecessarily more complicated.
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This is incorrect. webapp-config does hardlink or softlink the files. Hardlinking is the default. So it is not installed twice.
| cyberpatrol wrote: |
Why is it such a problem just to make a new USE flag which tells portage to install and to use webapp-config or not to install and to use webapp-config?
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Because using the already existing USE flag vhosts has the same result. Ok, it uses webapp-config but why does it matter if it results in exactly (except one additional hard link,... wohoo, beware ) as you would get if you would not use webapp-config?
I understand that the documentation is not that easy to read but if you really, really, really want to make webapp-config go away you should probably try to read the manual. Else the responses of the developers might be as short as the one from stu above.
Regards
Lucy |
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cyberpatrol
Apprentice
Joined: 18 Sep 2003
Posts: 161
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 12:48 am Post subject: |
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| LucyC wrote: | | This is incorrect. webapp-config does hardlink or softlink the files. Hardlinking is the default. So it is not installed twice. |
The point with the hardlinks is only correct if webapp-config and the vhosts are on the same file system. If they are on different file systems than it is installed twice because then the webapps are copied.
| LucyC wrote: | | Because using the already existing USE flag vhosts has the same result. Ok, it uses webapp-config but why does it matter if it results in exactly (except one additional hard link,... wohoo, beware ) as you would get if you would not use webapp-config? |
This also is not correct, too. See above.
| LucyC wrote: | | I understand that the documentation is not that easy to read but if you really, really, really want to make webapp-config go away you should probably try to read the manual. |
First there's not really a manual ("only" a GLEP and a manpage) for webapp-config. And by reading a documentation which is hard to understand such a program doesn't go away.
| LucyC wrote: | | Else the responses of the developers might be as short as the one from stu above. |
Probably you also should read this thread:
https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?t=243729
I guess he didn't want to post it twice.
And if there's an archive of the gentoo-web-user mailing list (I didn't find one) you probably should read Stus very friendly answer to my mail there.
And I could imagine that webapp-config could be or maybe will be improved in future, so that it fit's the need or wishes of both sides.
Another suggestion:
There are two threads about webapp-config. Couldn't we all switch to the thread https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?t=243729 and close this thread? Because it's not that efficient reading and posting in two threads parallel and Stu has answered there very detailed and asked to post questions there.
After reading Stu's postings and thinking again about webapp-config and the discussions here in the forum I think the question shouldn't be "How to dump webapp-config?" or "webapp-config: aye or nay?" anymore but "How could webapp-config be improved?" or something similar. |
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gilxa1226
n00b
Joined: 05 May 2002
Posts: 66
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| stuherbert wrote: | Please understand that Portage simply isn't capable of correctly installing web-based packages on its own.
Best regards,
Stu |
How so... I've run gentoo from pretty much the beginning and I've never had a problem with portage installing web-based packages. Even the documentation written on this doesn't say that is the reason for webapp, instead it says the reason for webapp is because the ebuild dev's weren't standardizing where they were putting the files for web-based packages. As I'm typing this I'm sitting on minute 20 of a
| Code: | /usr/sbin/webapp-config -I -h localhost -u root -d /phpgroupware phpg
roupware 0.9.16.005 |
wondering why this is 1) taking so long, and why when I installed this once 2 years ago it installed fine without having to deal with webapp. |
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Wilhelm
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 149
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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You probably know this but i'll say it anyway.
Webapp-config should be used by people with the "vhosts" use flag. If you don't have "vhosts" set you don't need to use webapp-config.
Webapp-config makes updating, installing and removing of webbased packages for ALL you virtual hosts easy. It's mere purpose is to allow you to migrate versions of webbased packages without hindering the users and maintaining security. Also if a user borks up his/her squirrelmail a mere webapp command can debork it.
If you have only 1 website, using webapp-config (and the vhosts use flag) is surely more effort.
I don't know why people can have problems with webapp-config since it made life for me very much easier and i did not have to modify my current system to integrate it. My setup uses custom directories etc and isn't straight forward. I only had to edit /etc/vhosts/* to get it all working fabuously. |
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cyberpatrol
Apprentice
Joined: 18 Sep 2003
Posts: 161
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Wilhelm wrote: | | Webapp-config should be used by people with the "vhosts" use flag. If you don't have "vhosts" set you don't need to use webapp-config. |
No, you are still wrong. Even if "vhosts" use flag is not set you have to use webapp-config because webapp-config still is a dependency of the webapp ebuilds. Even if you don't have "vhosts" in your use flags and you don't have virtual hosts webapp-config is installed.
| Wilhelm wrote: | | Webapp-config makes updating, installing and removing of webbased packages for ALL you virtual hosts easy. It's mere purpose is to allow you to migrate versions of webbased packages without hindering the users and maintaining security. Also if a user borks up his/her squirrelmail a mere webapp command can debork it. |
These are advantages for webapp-config if you have virtual hosts. But if you don't have virtual hosts it doesn't make any difference with borking or with security if webapps are first installed into /usr/share/webapps and then copied into /var/www/localhost/htdocs or if webapps are directly installed into /var/www/localhost/htdocs.
| Wilhelm wrote: | | If you have only 1 website, using webapp-config (and the vhosts use flag) is surely more effort. |
If you have only one website then it's just a waste of harddisk space if webapps first are installed into /usr/share/webapps and then copied into /var/www/localhost/htdocs. And, please, don't start again the absurd discussion about copying and hard linking. My directories /var and /usr have ever been, are and will ever be on different partitions. And I guess there are many other people who are having these directories on different partitions.
| Wilhelm wrote: | | I don't know why people can have problems with webapp-config since it made life for me very much easier and i did not have to modify my current system to integrate it. My setup uses custom directories etc and isn't straight forward. I only had to edit /etc/vhosts/* to get it all working fabuously. |
And I still don't understand why webapp-config can't be made optional. Ok, I don't have a problem with installing webapp-config but if I have to install it as a dependency for webapps then I don't understand why webapp-config can't install webapps directly into /var/www/localhost/htdocs if "vhosts" useflag is not set. Why do webapps still have to be installed twice with "vhosts" disabled?
As said before, please, don't answer something about hardlinking and copying. It should be no problem for the developers to change webapp-config so that it doesn't create the directory /usr/share/webapps and installs the webapps directly into the directory /var/www/localhost/htdocs if "vhosts" is not set. Maybe it can be any other directory which could be set in webapp-configs config file in /etc/vhosts.
And, please, don't understand me wrong. I'm seeing the advantages of webapp-config for people who have virtual hosts and/or have the directories /var and /usr on the same partition. But why can't the webapp-config developers be coming up to meet the wishes of people who don't have vhosts and/or have the directories /var and /usr on different partitions?
I guess if this would be done then there will be no more discussions about webapp-config. And I also guess that noone has a problem with installing the small webapp-config but the people have a problem with installing it first into /usr/share/webapps and then into /var/www/localhost/htdocs. This is completely unnecessary if you don't have virtual hosts. I don't see any reasons why it should not be possible also for webapp-config to install webapps directly into /var/www/localhost/htdocs if there are no virtual hosts. |
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