Hotplug issues?

dashnu · l33t Joined: 21 Jul 2004 Posts: 703 Location: Casco Maine

I have 5 productions machines that want to update hotplug, I have read this thread and I would like to make sure I have everything correct before I follow through with this.

1) If I add all of the modules I need loaded at boot to my /etc/modules.autoload.d/kernel-2.6 I should be all set.

2) If I understand this correcly I would than no longer need hotplug or would not have the need to emerge coldplug because these are servers and I do not plug and unplug hardware.

3) Now on my laptop I would want coldplug due to the fact that I have a wireless card that I do not need loaded at boot but want to load when I plug the card in.

Will someone confirm that I am understanding this correctly.

Thanks.
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dsd · Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 5:55 pm Post subject:

1 and 2 correct

3 : no

coldplugging is the process of scanning hardware *at bootup* . if you run coldplug then your wireless card module will be loaded at boot if its present. i dont think you want coldplug at all.

hotplugging is the process of loading modules when a card is plugged in *during system operation*. sounds like you want this for your wifi.
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STEDevil · Apprentice Joined: 24 Apr 2003 Posts: 156

Well thank you very much, I just spent 3 hours (including going home to a friend just to access internet to find out just what the hell was wrong with my system) getting my 2 nics back online as well and keyboard in X (luckily I still had keyboard in cli, or I wouldn't even have been able to edit configfiles & emerge to get me out of the mess).

dashnu · l33t Joined: 21 Jul 2004 Posts: 703 Location: Casco Maine

dashnu · l33t Joined: 21 Jul 2004 Posts: 703 Location: Casco Maine

Ok so my plan was going to be this:

1) One add all my modules to my modules file.
2) Remove hotplug from system and runlevel. (dont need it on my servers)
3) For backup reasons emerge coldplug just so I could kick that off incase autoload.d didnt work.
coldplug depends on hotplug ?!??

According to what was said above in previous post. Coldplug - scans hardware on boot / loads modules (which I want) Hotplug - loads modules when a card is plugged in durring normal system operation. (which I dont want)

Are we just sharing libraies or something here... Why do I _need_ hotplug when I "dont need it".
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DLF · n00b Joined: 02 Jul 2004 Posts: 40

dashnu · l33t Joined: 21 Jul 2004 Posts: 703 Location: Casco Maine

This is a mess...... Oh well onwards I go......
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frilled · Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:13 pm Post subject:

Well, you might be exaggerating this a bit too much. This was serious b0rkage and completely unneccessary, but OTOH it was fixable. You still had all the modules, you just had to load them by hand. I was caught by surprise, too, and hell I was more than annoyed, I have to admit. And I think it should not have been done like this. But I had worse troubles. So let this be a reminder to the devs that they shouldn't take stuff like this too lightly. Especially the comments on the gentoo handbook raised here were very, very true. It has actually been a difficult month for gentoo in my opinion. Quite some breakage. But that's how it is. It comes and goes in waves...
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pbardet · Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:22 pm Post subject:

I don't think the handbook is at fault in this mess. To me, it clearly states (whether it's the current version, or the 1.4 I used to setup my system) that you should add modules in your kernel2.x file in /etc/modules.autoload. And hotplug is used for everything else (I've always been under the impression hotplug was used for USB stuff).

andyfraser33 · Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:36 pm Post subject:

STEDevil · Apprentice Joined: 24 Apr 2003 Posts: 156

STEDevil · Apprentice Joined: 24 Apr 2003 Posts: 156

DLF · n00b Joined: 02 Jul 2004 Posts: 40

drescherjm · Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 12:35 am Post subject:

Thank You dsd for posting the simple fix. It was very annoying to use my laptop without an external usb mouse...
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BServiss · n00b Joined: 24 Nov 2002 Posts: 62

I lost usb functions after upgrading hotplug. After re-emerging hotplug and seeing the reference to coldplug, I did the rc-update.
If you want to find which module(s) will solve your problem, you'd have to look at the compiled modules as directed earlier, and insert each one in turn and see when the problem goes away. Not a solution for all situations to be sure, but if you want to find out why you can'tcommunicate with your usb ups, there are only a few modules that need looking at. Mine was usb-uhci (third on the list).
Just goes to show that a small update can have a large effect on your system.
Overall, I think the hotplug upgrade problem is a good thing as it requires you to really know whats going on in the system, as in my case.

Gentree · Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 2:29 am Post subject:

OK , please admit this was not thought through properly and try to learn the necessary lessons that it does not happen again.

I wont repeat what's already been said and STEDevil summed up the situation and my levels of frustration quite well above.

Portage is one of the corner-stones of Gentoo. For it to be useful it has to be reliable. It isnt.

I did emerge -uDav world and ended up with a completely broken system: pam login issues, no X, no LAN. And this is supposed to be "stable"!

I have had to mask and retrograde several packages and am still trying to work out what I can or cant install from what is supposedly stable.

I am now completely reviewing my update strategy.

One certain step will be finding 10Gb free space somewhere for a complete ghost image. This was necessary policy on Windows, it appears now to be needed on Gentoo.

You ask for SUGGESTIONS:

Number One: put yourself in the user's position , most of us dont have the same familiarity or the ammount of time to invest as devs do.

Dont let this sort of thing happen to stable

If by accident it does, at least put a sticky in the portage forum to help those caught out and to warn other potential victims who do check for issues before updating, this still has not been done!

If by accident it does, use portage masking a.s.a.p. to stop it hitting everyone.

etc-update could make diff files so any changes are clearly documented and backed-up and can be reversed if needs be.

If portinfo is needed to make any use of the (tens of ) thousands of lines output by portage why isnt it part of the base system? I cant even find it in portage! Where do I get it?

Since packages are not often done one at a time , the current method for outputting warnings is inadequate. It needs reviewing.

The whole hotplug/coldplug distinction is nonsense anyway . Coldplugging is when the system is powered-off and is nothing to do with any run-level.

Thanks for your explaination of what this was all about. Now I know it seems the whole mega-headache was a pendantic whim rather than a system "upgrade".

This week was the first time since I switch from Windows to Gentoo that I came close to kicking the computer. :evil:

I hope it's the last.

I had just partitioned a friend's PC to make room for Gentoo but if I need a ghost of the system there wont be enough room. Rethink.

I hope this thread leads to a better future for portage. Gentoo is great but I waste too much time debugging updates.

Best regards.

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stalcair · n00b Joined: 07 Aug 2003 Posts: 57

Gentree and STEDevil had a great way to sum up what I have felt, bravo.

Many see Gentoo as Gentoo is described, a customizable and usable system that puts you in control. Then they use it.

The forums, if you dig long and deep enough, will reveal that Gentoo and "it just works" are not generally terms you hear in the same sentence. Read: you best like fixing things over and over and over again and spending all your time debugging, troubleshooting, searching, trying, and tweaking to get it to a working condition.

This is much like any hobby and is not in itself a bad thing at all.

When someone uses a computer it may be for the enjoyment of tinkering with every single detail just to feel they accomplished something great and wonderous when they get Tux Racer fired up that glorious first time.

Others want to use it as a tool to help them in a particular task and saw the level of customizability as a means to that end. (this would include me).

If my car doesn't work after I took it into the shop for regular maintenance (emerge -uDva world) then you can bet I am not a happy camper. If the mechanic and his company ignore or insult me then that does not help. If many others have the same problem... yet the company still does not acknowledge and properly post warnings and update their own system (I am inspired here by the 2004.x LiveCD's, especially 2004.2) then we have a serious problem.

So what does the community want from Gentoo? What is Gentoo exactly? If extensive QA is required (as opposed to some simple smoke tests as would normally happen) for every update then please add that to the description of Gentoo and "what users can expect."

Otherwise it would be nice to track a system matrix of compatibility (by various degrees, think LinuxPrinter.org") and keep it UP TO DATE with various problems and solutions. This may even help dev's out (hint: I use this system at work, albeit on spreadsheets and it helps all eyes to see the picture better and avoid foolish duplication)