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Ateo
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:24 pm    Post subject: Yet Another Postcount question.... Reply with quote

Why are OTW posts not counted but posts in the Gentoo Forums Feedback forum category are? This forum category certainly is not technical and posts here do not reflect a persons participation in the tech forums.

Don't get me wrong, I'm actually supportive of negating OTW post counts but really, where is the consistancy here? My point here is that post count should only be applied in the tech forums since that's the purpose of the Gentoo Forums...

Thanks
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would guess that it's counting because a lot of good rep[orting happens here. Users report misplace threads, giving the forum useful feedback on features or problems etc.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But how does this provide trust that a users post count actually reflects his/her technical abilities? This thread is a perfect example. How does me starting/participating on this thread validate any sort of trust of knowledge of my linux abilities as it does increase my post count?

These forums are not technically useful (the feedback forum category) to gentoo users seeking help, IMHO. It's only useful to mods/admins.

Also, if the gentoo webmaster/mods/admins are truly concerned with helping users, they would consider excluding the non-tech forums from searches as this clutters some searches with completely useless threads... usually from OTW.

Again, just my opinion.

[edit]
I suppose the "Documentation, Tips and Tricks" forum should continue to increase post since it most definately is a tech forum.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ateo: It's not exactly constistent. You even get postcount for posts in Dustbin.
However OTW is/was the forum where most people gained the most postcount for "nothing", removing postcount here has already set everyone's postcount to much more "accurate" values.

ebrostig: Good point about GFF, but afaik posts in the Feedback Thread don't count as they are usually deleted afterwards. That's pretty unfair. ;)
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Ateo
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

amne wrote:
Ateo: It's not exactly constistent. You even get postcount for posts in Dustbin.
However OTW is/was the forum where most people gained the most postcount for "nothing", removing postcount here has already set everyone's postcount to much more "accurate" values.


Right. I am completely aware of this. However, if you agree with me that it's not consistant, why *isn't* it consistant. Does it make sense to grant someone a post tally for a dustbin/dupe post?

I guess since I totally support negating OTW posts, I'm just being totally anal about this... blah!!!
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ateo wrote:
Right. I am completely aware of this. However, if you agree with me that it's not consistant, why *isn't* it consistant.

Because no one implemented it (yet). I don't know if it is that easy to implement or would possibly complicate things and make the changes (which we usually try to avoid completely) even more hard to overview.

Ateo wrote:

Does it make sense to grant someone a post tally for a dustbin/dupe post?

As said before, not really.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ateo wrote:
But how does this provide trust that a users post count actually reflects his/her technical abilities?
Postcount isn't a reflection of ability, just how often someone has posted.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
Ateo wrote:
But how does this provide trust that a users post count actually reflects his/her technical abilities?
Postcount isn't a reflection of ability, just how often someone has posted.


Of course. I realize this. But what is the purpose of forums.gentoo.org? Is it to provide tech support for users who need help or is it a place to "shoot the shit"? I would think the first applies.

A users post count should at the very least reflect only technical threads, whether the user is new looking for help or an old timer providing help.

Again, as with this thread, I'm increasing my post count (of course, not as much as one could in OTW) with a completely useless thread in the sense that it's not helping anyone. However, I think it's a valid thread since I'm inquiring something releated to these forums...
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ateo wrote:
A users post count should at the very least reflect only technical threads,
This would only further confuse the issue that postcount is relevant to knowledge.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
Ateo wrote:
A users post count should at the very least reflect only technical threads,
This would only further confuse the issue that postcount is relevant to knowledge.


You're probably right.

Thanks for hearing me out.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I somewhat agree with Ateo here. Removing graduated (ie. non special ranks) and post count's would eliminate all 'competition' (for lack of a better term) between members.

A perfect way to gauge how useful a forum member is to look at their past post history. (Please don't look at mine :wink: )
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still want to come up with a ranking system that does not imply experience or knowledge. I had a couple, but forget what they are now. There's an entire thread about ranks though.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
I still want to come up with a ranking system that does not imply experience or knowledge. I had a couple, but forget what they are now. There's an entire thread about ranks though.


Maybe phpbb is just too limiting. There's a post in OTW suggesting to "rate this thread's usefulness". The forum that forum.amule.org (Burning Board) uses is great as it has this option.

As Slyde suggested, looking back at post history could help establish a users experience in such that perhaps a special rank can be created (or something of the like) to compliement this new rank system that doesn't imply anything in the nature of experience or knowledge.

Just my input. I really like these forums, with or without OTW. Probably because I'm in company of mostly like minded individuals. But really, in the end, I really do think a speacial rank should be assigned to users who actively participate helping others in, and only in, the tech support forums.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We've discussed migrating from phpbb before, but really haven't found an alternative that was "better." Though in the past, it was performance related, not features. The option isn't closed, so it could happen, if it were necessary. The preference is for an OSS solution, which I'm almost certain would be a requirement for optional features (not so for performance, or other similar needs.)

Regarding a ranking system related to post quality, I would be concerned about users ranking someone poorly or overly well based on a bias.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A person's post count isn't purely indicative of their technical ability. It's more indicative of their helpfulness as a member of the Gentoo forums. Technical ability is one aspect of that but certainly not the only one.

And yes, post count is of questionable usefullness. Some folks use it to gauge others when interacting with them, some folks ignore it. We simply provide it as a data point for you to use how you wish.

We removed OTW from counting against ones post count for two reasons. 1) people were posting crap threads for no other reason than to boost their post count. We could have dealt with this a number of ways, but because of 2) OTW has nothing to do with Gentoo, we chose the most expedient way and simply stopped counting them.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
We've discussed migrating from phpbb before, but really haven't found an alternative that was "better." Though in the past, it was performance related, not features. The option isn't closed, so it could happen, if it were necessary. The preference is for an OSS solution, which I'm almost certain would be a requirement for optional features (not so for performance, or other similar needs.)


OSS isn't necessarily a requirement. It's certainly our first preference, but if there is a forum system out there which is clearly heads and shoulders above everything else, but is commercial, we would consider using that. Personally, I'm a big fan of vBulletin.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

klieber wrote:
A person's post count isn't purely indicative of their technical ability. It's more indicative of their helpfulness as a member of the Gentoo forums. Technical ability is one aspect of that but certainly not the only one.

And yes, post count is of questionable usefullness. Some folks use it to gauge others when interacting with them, some folks ignore it. We simply provide it as a data point for you to use how you wish.

We removed OTW from counting against ones post count for two reasons. 1) people were posting crap threads for no other reason than to boost their post count. We could have dealt with this a number of ways, but because of 2) OTW has nothing to do with Gentoo, we chose the most expedient way and simply stopped counting them.

--kurt


I think you've explained it best. Thanks for the clarification.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

klieber wrote:
OSS isn't necessarily a requirement.
Ah, I misunderstood the last discussion then.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

People get posts for not having a clue and asking questions about what to do. This is yet another issue with postcounts as a metric for measuring someone's techincal ability and/or helpfulness.

However, I think most people who are technically able and most people who are genuinely helpful can easily show that with the content of their posts. As such, I don't see the need for a change.
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