SUGGESTION: Portage 6 month "freeze" option

[Loke]

I want feedback on the following idea: Twice a year the portage tree is frozen and tested for stability, before its released as a syncable tree which will only receive security updates and/or grave bugfixes untill the next freeze period after for example 6 months.

The regular portage tree will be handled as normal, and users who wish can use it as they do today. So this suggestion does NOT interfer with how Gentoo work today. But for those who want to, they can sync against the frozen/stable halfyear release.

This is positive because:

1. Escape micromanagement! There are alot of -rX bumps in portage which "force" a user to update packages even though the -rX bump fix a bug which does not affect the user. The micromanagement aspect is true for alot of tasks of portage.

2. Easy to keep up-to-date on security. I want to install Gentoo to joe average mums and dads and just have to worry about security updates in portage. I know there exists a tool for this already, but it does not work without micromanagement in my experience.

3. Stable and known package selection An ideal time for such a freeze would coincide with the LiveCD release perhaps? I guess it has some sort of quality control?

4. Install once, run forever. Combat the myth that Gentoo is always about compiling, and that it actually is an alternative for joe average also.

5. Increased stability? Interesting point to discuss btw...

I could probably think of other reasons too, the possibilities seems endless. What if you could have Knoppix-like LiveCDs which will install the system with the press of a button and sync against such a frozen portage? A user would hardly have to compile anything to install Gentoo, just to install security updates.

Negative aspects which comes to mind:

1. Someone has to do the work / development This will ultimately steal attention from other projects in Gentoo, so it has to be something which people find attractive.

2. Implementation Is this even possible to run in parallell with the regular portage tree, or will you eventually end up with two separate trees which really have not much in common.

3. World updates The ideal situation would be if a user could world upgrade from the previous frozen portage to the current, this will of course take alot of time and compiling but again this is the price you pay for running Gentoo.

(If I were to make my own Linuxdistro btw, it would be based on gentoo and a private portage snapshot host where only security updates is applied.)

Constructive critizism appreciated.
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I'm not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, I'm saying why don't we take the warning labels off of everything, and let the problem take care of itself?

[Randy R]

yes yes yes

[truekaiser]

yes this will stop the headache i have had with portage and wasteing my laptop's hard drive space with the exact same kernel over and over and over.. just because the r number was bumped because it goes stable on some exotic cpu..

[deflin39]

[ba747heavy]

I like the idea in theory, but this almost sounds like too much work to call it "gentoo". This might be better suited to a fork of gentoo then gentoo itself. Otherwise I think the idea is just fine.
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Fred Clausen
"leet [speak] is a cry for help from a shallow mind" - Doomwookie Jan 05

[Loke]

[truekaiser]

[Flammie]

Umm, I might be missing something, but why do you all install kernel sources if you don't need them? It's not a requirement to do emerge world every day.

Other than that, I think what this suggestion is about is pretty much the same as the stable gentoo tree glep 19, which gets discussed every once in a month.

[blue.sca]

[blue.sca]

[Naib]

and how would they find bugs?

packages get released because a dev thinks it is stable. Then the fast number of Gentoo users try it and (should) submit bug requests.

IF there is a 6month freeze all that would happen is:

portage released (6month freeze)
a bug is found by a user.
This is encorperated BUT is not available until next portage release.
...
...
new portage snapshot is released (with bug fixes)
some more bugs found
...
...


One of the major advantages of linux over windows is the patching time. Look at SP2 it was released to "fix" some problems. It caused some problems that are still present to this day.

If that was linux a patch is released, problems reported, patch released... the only time delay is the time to understand the problem, realised the solution, implment and test and release.

A day at most (unless a major one).


It seems fine where it is. Gentoo devs need us to find problems so they can fix or encorprate
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[vonhelmet]

Is there a single other distro that does this?

I'm pretty certain the answer is... no.
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[BlackEdder]

Single distro: Ubuntu
and with a freeze he ofcourz means a general version freeze, but still bug fixes and (backported) security updates.

I think the reason for this would be that now sometimes version follow each other so fast that there isn't really time for proper testing. -> often after an update you will have to fix a couple of ebuilds yourself.
It's easier to properly test a whole tree if th tree isn't evolving continuously -> leading to less broken packages when you update.

I see merit in the idea, but it should be possible to exclude a couple of packages from the freeze (btw opera never gave me problems even the early alpha ebuilds), some games you need to keep up to date else you won't be able to play them online

[zervus]

[vonhelmet]

Fair enough, so there are a few people out there doing it...

I don't quite see why we need it here though. Generally just running x86 is fine. Then if you need fixes you can use glsa-check and emerge things individually.
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[Earthwings]

Yes, sounds indeed like a duplicate of GLEP 19.

Moved from Other Things Gentoo.

[Loke]

[charlieg]

[richk449]

I think this is a great idea. I wouldn't use it, but I would love to set up a linux computer for my parents using it. As of right now, there is no distro that I know of that I can install and trust enough that I could remotely update it without risk of breaking anything.

[blue.sca]

[quote="charlieg*sigh* you are missing the point. The idea is to stay stable / with security updates without micromanagement. There is currently no way to do this.[/quote]

i can't see this directly from the original post.
anyways, is a -rX -> -r(X+1) release not just a bugfixing and/or security related update? if not, again, no one forces you to update.
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geek by nature, linux by choice
i want my avatar back... thank you
:wq

[Flammie]

[richk449]

[Lokheed]

Do you guys report bugs with ebuilds or just complain about them here? Dont mean to come off as a jerk, but if you want results, go through the proper steps. Bugs posted to bugs.gentoo.org get solved real quick if its within there means.

You reep what you sew.

[Loke]

Its amazing to read about the suggestions to mask things in /etc/portage/packages.mask. Or the part where you should definately use glsa-check to manage security, never mind the big fat warning when using it which reminds you this is experiemental software.

Not to mention the fact when you have to manually update your profile now and then, AND lets not forget updating config files. Yes, this is very very easy - especially knowing what config file you can always overwrite and which ones will b0rk your system if you do.

Thanks for all the marvelous tips! I'll make sure to tell this to my not so computer-tech friends and family the next time I install Gentoo on their computer. After all, its what Gentoo is all about. Micromanagement.

*Sits back and awaits the out-of-this-world lame posts about use Debian instead*
_________________
I'm not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, I'm saying why don't we take the warning labels off of everything, and let the problem take care of itself?

[BlackEdder]