Using Gentoo in IRAN

Barsik · n00b Joined: 16 Jun 2002 Posts: 6

Due to US exporting restrictions we cannot use RedHat Linux in certain countries including IRAN.
We can use SUSE since it's European company and there is no such rules in Europe.

Does this restrinction apply to Gentoo ? Can we use in IRAN ?

klieber · Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2003 1:54 am Post subject:

I should start this response by saying in big bold letters, I am not a lawyer. I don't even play one on TV.

That said, because the Gentoo Linux project is based within US borders, I have to suspect that Gentoo would be subject to the same export restrictions as any other US entity.

If someone who is a lawyer has a different opinion, please feel free to jump in and correct me.

In the mean time, I"m moving this topic to OTG.

--kurt
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broschi · Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2003 8:47 am Post subject:

RH is a corporation totally based in the US while Gentoo is an international effort with no lucrative intentions. This is where I draw the line but Mr. Khatami doesn't look like the guy who would bomb the crap out of your building to get rid of your computer (sorry I don't know the political sitatuation more than this).

Just with the team of GWN translators which come from America to Europe and soon Asia it makes me wonder.

snowmoon · n00b Joined: 05 Jun 2002 Posts: 64 Location: Albany,NY USA

Don't forget that the binay iso's live cd contains ssh which may or may not be export controlled.

Your best bet is to find a non us ibiliblo mirror and use that. Jus modify your make.global to make sure it's pointing to a non-us gentoo mirror.

I

idl · Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2003 5:39 pm Post subject:

I say fuck em and install what you want, the U.S .gov are just being pathetic!

Mikey · Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2003 7:24 pm Post subject:

The world wide web does not have international borders. If something is freely available on the web then go for it. I would think that the host site would be responsible for restricting any downloads, if necessary.
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broschi · Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2003 7:24 pm Post subject:

rphillips · Retired Dev Joined: 18 Apr 2002 Posts: 92

Let me quote and say I am not a lawyer.

I have submitted to the U.S. export agency the necessary paperwork to export encryption from gentoo.org and its mirrors to any country and entity *not* on the embargo list. Since the LiveCDs do contain openssh, then you download them at your own risk -- for the time being. I'll see if I can get the iso maintainers to create two versions of the CD, or remove the crypto altogether.

luked · n00b Joined: 17 Sep 2002 Posts: 19

Barsik, how can the US law apply to you in Iran? If you can download Gentoo in Iran according to Iranian law then that is fine, since you are not answerable to US law. This is rather an issue for the administrators of Gentoo servers in the US, for they are the ones who are answerable to US law.

luked · n00b Joined: 17 Sep 2002 Posts: 19

rphilips wrote:

BradB · Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2003 8:28 am Post subject:

I would take a stance of passive resistance. Don't do anything - ignore the problem. Linus has taken a similar stance with possible patent violations in the kernel, he says (I can't remember the mail list where I read this) that he doesn't bother to look up patents to see if he is infringing them, that way he can deny any knowledge, not to mention that the technology was independantly devised. Dunno if it would stand up in court, but the US has some pretty silly laws when it comes to software, IP and patents - I expect some major changes in the next 5 years.

Cheers
Brad

antik · Apprentice Joined: 01 Oct 2002 Posts: 212

rphillips · Retired Dev Joined: 18 Apr 2002 Posts: 92

The export laws say that all Gentoo has to do is not knowingly give the encryption to the embargo list...

slartibartfasz · Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2003 6:53 pm Post subject: Re: Using Gentoo in IRAN

mmealman · Guru Joined: 02 Nov 2002 Posts: 348 Location: Florida

snowmoon · n00b Joined: 05 Jun 2002 Posts: 64 Location: Albany,NY USA

Ignrance of the problem is difference from indifference. By /dev/null'ing your records you are saying that you know it happens and you would prefer that there was no evidence of the transaction. Judges don't like that excuse. If your site has a posted policy of /dev/null'ing records for other reasons that's another story.

Remeber that even in the US SOURCE CODE is still protected speech. Gentoo might be the one legal way to export crypto. The ISO containg openssh might be a problem though.

Just some more things to chew on, but once things get moving the gentoo admins should really get the advice of a laywer if they have not already.

slartibartfasz · Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2003 11:14 am Post subject:

@snowmoon

i thought more of something like this:

http://anon.inf.tu-dresden.de/help/FAQ_en.html#K2

(FAQ section of a german anonymizer project) - perhaps a similar argumentation can be used in the US...
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Barsik · n00b Joined: 16 Jun 2002 Posts: 6

Unfortunately it is not a simple matter of ignoring US law and installing Gentoo or any other Linux in Iran. Our company is based in UK and we have branches in many countries including USA & Iran. And our corporate lawyers don’t think that “who cares – let’s do that” is good idea.
We can’t even use Mozilla there due to this restriction (((((
And I can’t get clear answer from many major Linux companies ((((

pjp · Administrator Joined: 16 Apr 2002 Posts: 20067

Is there any chance that someone within the company would have already done the research? Maybe has a list of what can be used? As they have such varied locations, the info might be available internally.
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mmealman · Guru Joined: 02 Nov 2002 Posts: 348 Location: Florida

The FSF or EFF might have more information in regards to this.

http://www.eff.org/
http://www.fsf.org/

You might also look into checking with Debian. I know in the past they made it a point to keep crypto on non-us servers, but this was back when there were heavier restrictions on US crypto export.

snowmoon · n00b Joined: 05 Jun 2002 Posts: 64 Location: Albany,NY USA

Actually I have an idea that should keep you in the clear, but I make assumptions.

1) The stageX builds do not contain crypto.

You can boot and untar using debian boot disks ( or other non-crypto recovery disc ). You then chroot as usual.

emerge rsync. Now remove all crypto ebuilds

Continue install as normal, you may have to work around broken ebuilds specifically system may want openssh, but that shouln't take more than a few mintes to track down and fix. Or as always find non-US mirrors for those sources and plug them into the ebuild script. If you can find non-US sources for the crypto just drop them into /usr/portage/distfiles and the ebuilds will work as expected.

Really their needs to be a better way of doing this, possibly a non-US build of gentoo that keeps it's own source tree outside of us juristiction.

punter · Guru Joined: 25 Nov 2002 Posts: 506

I searched on gentoo forums (as result of curiosity) to see if there has been any mention of Bam earthquake incidence in Iran.
No posts popped out, but following my search for Iran this topic popped out, and I found it somewhat interesting ...

Every software is free and legal in Iran.
Copyright regulations are seen as "restrictions" to spread of info/knowledge in society and as such anyone even claiming for copyright in Iran can be fined and possibly arrested. Regardin the US bullshit it's the hosting servers problem, and I don't think they can do anything about it ...
They can't even monitor for that !!!!

Everything is used in Iran. Gentoo was picked up by many in early 2002 but dropped for various reasons later.

Enough said about that, just a one liner about Bam in persian for my fellow mates:
Omid-varam kesi ra az dast nadadeh bashid, ba omid be ayandeye behtar baraye hameye ma makhsoosan zelzele-zadegane aziz.

S

stonent · Veteran Joined: 07 Aug 2003 Posts: 1139 Location: Texas

I suggest that you attempt to get what you need outside of the US from a country that has formal diplomatic relations with Iran.

Information about cryptography:

http://www.rsasecurity.com/rsalabs/faq/6-4.html

Even Canada cannot export technology originating from the US to countries that the US has embargoed.

http://www.bxa.doc.gov/News/2003/Kashani_Zimex.htm
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funkmankey · Guru Joined: 06 Mar 2003 Posts: 304 Location: CH

I thought that there had finally been some developments in US courts to the effect of recognizing that the crypto export restrictions were the pure BS that we all know they are...? or was that for RSA only? (sorry unable to search up some links right now, too much beer...)

in any case, snowmoon's first and third comment seem to be some fairly sensible advice.

borders and restrictions are stupid, there will come one day when neither matter (let's just hope it's not in a US-NAFTA "free"-style way...)
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Genjix · Apprentice Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 163

Are you even sure gentoo would work in Iran? Recently when I went to Persia I could not get irc, and when I probed the ports I found they were being blocked.
This could just have been the network I was on, but it does seem like a sucky thing the government would do- can anyone verify this for me?

What is the extent of the filter systems being used in Iran?

punter: schob, mikonam