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| Do you need Reiser4? |
| It would be great to have it with gentoo-dev-sources and/or gentoo-sources |
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65% |
[ 367 ] |
| It is enough if it works with other sources. |
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15% |
[ 88 ] |
| I don't need Reiser4 at all, so I don't care. |
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18% |
[ 103 ] |
| What is Reiser4? |
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0% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 560 |
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lefsha
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Joined: 30 Aug 2004
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Location: Burgas, Bulgaria
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HydroSan
l33t
Joined: 04 Mar 2004
Posts: 764
Location: The Kremlin (aka Canada)
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 Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:22 am Post subject: |
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Reiser4 is fast.
But inefficient. Doesn't work on my AMD64 either. And isn't avaliable without some sort of EXTREME HORRIBLE OMG patchset.
So therefore I don't care.
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codergeek42
Bodhisattva
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 5142
Location: Anaheim, CA (USA)
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 5:30 am Post subject: |
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Gentoo won't support it in any way until it's part of the mainline kernel tree. So until then, you're on your own if you're uisng Reiser4.
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Jake
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Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 1132
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:49 am Post subject: |
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| HydroSan wrote: | Reiser4 is fast.
But inefficient. Doesn't work on my AMD64 either. And isn't avaliable without some sort of EXTREME HORRIBLE OMG patchset.
So therefore I don't care. |
Can you reproduce your AMD64 bug? Ever since the bitmap.c bug was fixed, I haven't been able to reproduce any bugs, but I still get the occasional lockup. I seem to be the only one having problems, so it would seem reiser4 mostly if not completely works on AMD64.
In case you don't follow the mailing list- http://people.msoe.edu/~maciejej/patches/reiser4-64-bit-patches/ |
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lefsha
Veteran
Joined: 30 Aug 2004
Posts: 1235
Location: Burgas, Bulgaria
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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| codergeek42 wrote: | | Gentoo won't support it in any way until it's part of the mainline kernel tree. So until then, you're on your own if you're uisng Reiser4. |
So it is more politic here inside then bugs of Reiser4.
Am I right?
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WaterSoul
Apprentice
Joined: 31 Jan 2004
Posts: 158
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Jake wrote: |
Can you reproduce your AMD64 bug? Ever since the bitmap.c bug was fixed, I haven't been able to reproduce any bugs, but I still get the occasional lockup. I seem to be the only one having problems, so it would seem reiser4 mostly if not completely works on AMD64.
In case you don't follow the mailing list- http://people.msoe.edu/~maciejej/patches/reiser4-64-bit-patches/ |
It's just that some people like me can't afford having 'an occasional lockup', I mean, I switched from windows for a good reason  and I wouldn't want to be forced to have useless stuff around (and that's why I choosed gentoo) Reiserfs 3.6 is as good and works well without 'occasional lockup' :]
And a filesystem is managing files that are more than important to me, so I prefer having a stable one:) |
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spb
Retired Dev
Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 2135
Location: Cambridge, UK
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| lefsha wrote: | So it is more politic here inside then bugs of Reiser4.
Am I right? |
It's more the fact that Reiser4 is broken by design and generally a horrible piece of code. If/when it gets in the vanilla kernel, that will be an indication that it's close to being ready to use in real life situations, so it'll be suitable for the standard gentoo kernels. |
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lefsha
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Joined: 30 Aug 2004
Posts: 1235
Location: Burgas, Bulgaria
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| spb wrote: | | lefsha wrote: | So it is more politic here inside then bugs of Reiser4.
Am I right? |
It's more the fact that Reiser4 is broken by design and generally a horrible piece of code. |
How you can say that is "a horrible piece of code"?
Have you check it? Is it possible to show here what does it mean?
I would say that I see a lot of programs and most of them are horrible for me.
For example Portage system is horrible for me. But so much people use it.
I think that Python where you need to care about every space in code is horrible.
Because it is the reason of mistakes in program like one version of Portage.
About Reiser4 I can say only that it works. Why it should be horrible?
So the main thought of my message is, that there is a lot of programs,
which are really horrible but they are in portage and nobody say
that is horrible. The people which works with Word every day
would say to you that Openoffice is horrible.
I may say that Mozilla (Firefox, Thunderbird) design is horrible.
From a thousend of programs I will find only a small number
which are not horrible. And this number is surely less then 50.
The question is where or what in Reiser4 is so horrible?
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Ian
l33t
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Posts: 834
Location: Somerville, MA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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I've found reiser4 to be very nice to have as a small partition to run portage on. If I have /usr/portage on a reiser4 partition, I definitely notice a speed increase (this is on an older 800 Mhz computer with not the fastest harddrives), and I don't care too much about the chance that the data will be wiped out because a simple "emerge sync" and it's all back (minus the distfiles).
The biggest problem I've seen with reiser4 is it's, well, issues when trying to run it with Apache2. I've tried it, it does work, but it's a hack. I was doing some more research on it last night, and from what I can tell, Hans thinks one way, Apache thinks the other, and it's not going to get resolved until reiser4 makes it into the mainstream kernel (and the way it identifies files versus directories is fixed). So until that nasty issue is fixed, I think it should only go into gentoo-dev-sources, if anything, otherwise I believe it's staying in mm-sources for the time being, so we'll always have the ability to use it without going and making our own patchsets. |
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ciaranm
Retired Dev
Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Posts: 1719
Location: In Hiding
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Dunno why you bother polling, it's not going to happen. |
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Chaosite
Guru
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 540
Location: Right over here.
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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| ciaranm wrote: | | Dunno why you bother polling, it's not going to happen. |
Yeah, but might I entice you to go into an anti - reiser4 rant so I'll be able to see your point?
A link would be nice, too. |
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Jake
Veteran
Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 1132
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| WaterSoul wrote: | It's just that some people like me can't afford having 'an occasional lockup', I mean, I switched from windows for a good reason and I wouldn't want to be forced to have useless stuff around (and that's why I choosed gentoo) Reiserfs 3.6 is as good and works well without 'occasional lockup' :]
And a filesystem is managing files that are more than important to me, so I prefer having a stable one:) |
First, reiserfs isn't as good. It's noticeably slower and less space efficient. If you want to speed it up, you can disable tails, but that makes the space efficiency even worse. reiserfs isn't atomic so it isn't as reliable as reiser4 will be when all the bugs are fixed. You also have to consider plugins and metas. reiser4 will allow lots of cool stuff at the filesystem level, like transparently compressing or encrypting files, all with only the standard POSIX tools.
Second, it'll be a much longer wait for the above advantages if people don't at least report their bugs. That's what frustrates me the most about the Gentoo community. Everyone wants the latest and greatest, but if it doesn't work, they'll sit back and wait for someone else to discover and report the problem. I'm guilty of it soemtimes too, but I was surprised to learn that sometimes there isn't anyone else to discover and report the problem. You hear about companies spending millions on Linux and thousands of people around the world working on it, but individuals like you and me are just as important now as they were in the mid 90s. As I recall, there were only two people submiting bug reports for the most recently fixed AMD64 bug. The bug didn't get fixed until Namesys bought an AMD64 machine. Now I'm the only one having problems, but it might not completely be reiser4's fault.
EDIT: I meant report the bugs to Namesys, not the Gentoo developers
Last edited by Jake on Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:15 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Voltago
Advocate
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 2593
Location: userland
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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Missing option:
[x] Reiser4 is far from mature and would generate a lot of disappointment and support requests. Don't include it into the main kernel yet (for another year or so). |
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codergeek42
Bodhisattva
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 5142
Location: Anaheim, CA (USA)
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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About the bug reporting...Gentoo's team of developers (and especially the gentoo-kernel herd) will very likely mark any reported Reiser4 bug as RESOLVED/INVALID or RESOLVED/UPSTREAM since Reiser4 is not supported at all...
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spb
Retired Dev
Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 2135
Location: Cambridge, UK
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| lefsha wrote: | | The question is where or what in Reiser4 is so horrible? |
The fact that it breaks Apache, nfsd/tftpd (one or the other; I didn't check which), and any system that uses extended attributes for security information would be a good indication that something's gone wrong. Reiserfs 3.6 does the security label thing too, for what it's worth.
Last edited by spb on Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Voltago
Advocate
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 2593
Location: userland
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| codergeek42 wrote: | | About the bug reporting...Gentoo's team of developers (and especially the gentoo-kernel herd) will very likely mark any reported Reiser4 bug as RESOLVED/INVALID or RESOLVED/UPSTREAM since Reiser4 is not supported at all... |
The way I see it: What is included in the gentoo-sources kernel is supported, what isn't included isn't. |
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codergeek42
Bodhisattva
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 5142
Location: Anaheim, CA (USA)
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Voltago wrote: | | codergeek42 wrote: | | About the bug reporting...Gentoo's team of developers (and especially the gentoo-kernel herd) will very likely mark any reported Reiser4 bug as RESOLVED/INVALID or RESOLVED/UPSTREAM since Reiser4 is not supported at all... |
The way I see it: What is included in the gentoo-sources kernel is supported, what isn't included isn't. |
Exactly. 
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Who am I? :: EFF & FSF |
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spb
Retired Dev
Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 2135
Location: Cambridge, UK
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Voltago wrote: | | The way I see it: What is included in the gentoo-sources kernel is supported, what isn't included isn't. |
Not quite....hardened-{,dev-}sources are fair game too, as probably are rsbac-{dev-,}sources. |
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ciaranm
Retired Dev
Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Posts: 1719
Location: In Hiding
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| spb wrote: | | Voltago wrote: | | The way I see it: What is included in the gentoo-sources kernel is supported, what isn't included isn't. |
Not quite....hardened-{,dev-}sources are fair game too, as probably are rsbac-{dev-,}sources. |
Not even that. Try submitting a bug complaining about fluxbox not working when you're using binary drivers and see how far you get...
Actually, don't bother... |
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spb
Retired Dev
Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 2135
Location: Cambridge, UK
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 2:20 am Post subject: |
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| ciaranm wrote: | Not even that. Try submitting a bug complaining about fluxbox not working when you're using binary drivers and see how far you get...
Actually, don't bother... |
Well yes, binary drivers change things. As does it being fluxbox, since we all know what its maintainer's like.... |
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ciaranm
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Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Posts: 1719
Location: In Hiding
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:25 am Post subject: |
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| spb wrote: | | Well yes, binary drivers change things. As does it being fluxbox, since we all know what its maintainer's like.... |
Witty, charming and erudite? |
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spb
Retired Dev
Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 2135
Location: Cambridge, UK
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| ciaranm wrote: | | Witty, charming and erudite? |
Well, I was going to say an ass, but if you agree with him then I suppose you're right. |
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Pse
Apprentice
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 188
Location: by the plate river
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| I'd be glad to see Reiser4 support in Gentoo-source or in development kernels...it should be disabled by default and marked as highly experimental, though.. |
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ciaranm
Retired Dev
Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Posts: 1719
Location: In Hiding
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Pse wrote: | | I'd be glad to see Reiser4 support in Gentoo-source or in development kernels... |
That's a shame. |
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gentoo_lan
l33t
Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 891
Location: Charles Town, WV
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't use Reiser4 but people should have a more stable kernel with Reiser4 built in. The experimental kernels are becoming extremely crazy as of late. |
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