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ed0n
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

None of them.
Use -ck. If you _need_ any other patch, just apply it yourself.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

-ck rocks :)
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ciaranm, you don't need to go on a crusade against nitro. If someone wants to use it, let them.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

uman wrote:
ciaranm, you don't need to go on a crusade against nitro. If someone wants to use it, let them.

Oh, I have nothing against people using it. It's when those users start telling everyone else to use it and claiming that it doesn't have serious stability issues that I get annoyed. Remember, I'm one of the ones that has to deal with all the bogus bugs that get filed by users who got suckered in by the marketing speak and who don't know any better.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good point. It just seems like your being unnecessarily hostile, even if what you say is absolutely true (which it is).
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have never recommended that anyone use nitro. In fact, when asked on my gaming howto threads, I recommend ck.

ciaranm, I apologize if you're seeing unnecessary bugs due to nitro-sources, but that's pretty much out of my control. I make sure that all users know not to go near bugzilla with any issues resulting from usage of this patchset.

EDIT:
dcrook: Your response made my day. Thank you.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gentoo_lan wrote:
Well they are taking nvidia and ati drivers out of the kernel (not because they violate the GPL - In their opinion, not mine) but because they just don't work. What a surprise.


Wow, that is news to me. I've been running nitro with the bundled ATI drivers for a week now for hours at a time without a single crash. But then again you must be right. I'm sure my system has been crashing every 10 minutes and I just never noticed it.

Do you do anything with your life other than get on Darckness's case about nitro? Does he break into your house in the dark of night and install Nitro on your helpless Gentoo system? Did he beat you up when you were a kid and take your milk money?

Maybe you should try going outside sometime or getting a girlfriend.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dcrook wrote:
gentoo_lan wrote:
Well they are taking nvidia and ati drivers out of the kernel (not because they violate the GPL - In their opinion, not mine) but because they just don't work. What a surprise.


Wow, that is news to me. I've been running nitro with the bundled ATI drivers for a week now for hours at a time without a single crash. But then again you must be right. I'm sure my system has been crashing every 10 minutes and I just never noticed it.

Do you do anything with your life other than get on Darckness's case about nitro? Does he break into your house in the dark of night and install Nitro on your helpless Gentoo system? Did he beat you up when you were a kid and take your milk money?

Maybe you should try going outside sometime or getting a girlfriend.


I don't need a girlfriend I have a wife.

Also when something violates the GPL everyone should get on a developers case...not just me. I happen to try to stand up for the GPL because it is vital to the opensource movement.

Your computer runs well with nitro and I my computer runs well without nitro. If you ever do have a problem though, good luck getting a gentoo developer to help you with it.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gentoo_lan wrote:
dcrook wrote:
gentoo_lan wrote:
Well they are taking nvidia and ati drivers out of the kernel (not because they violate the GPL - In their opinion, not mine) but because they just don't work. What a surprise.


Wow, that is news to me. I've been running nitro with the bundled ATI drivers for a week now for hours at a time without a single crash. But then again you must be right. I'm sure my system has been crashing every 10 minutes and I just never noticed it.

Do you do anything with your life other than get on Darckness's case about nitro? Does he break into your house in the dark of night and install Nitro on your helpless Gentoo system? Did he beat you up when you were a kid and take your milk money?

Maybe you should try going outside sometime or getting a girlfriend.


I don't need a girlfriend I have a wife.

Also when something violates the GPL everyone should get on a developers case...not just me. I happen to try to stand up for the GPL because it is vital to the opensource movement.

Your computer runs well with nitro and I my computer runs well without nitro. If you ever do have a problem though, good luck getting a gentoo developer to help you with it.


Thats great that you care that much about the GPL. Where exactly did you get your legal degree from? With the amount of scorn and vitriol you have been poring on Darckness I would assume that you are from FSF message board hit squad specially trained in legal issues like this. Oh wait, you aren't a lawyer. All that I have seen you do is make up lies about Darckness'es character. That was a nice touch with leaving out the "Not that" part of his quote when you were tearing into the man. Its one thing to say his kernel is buggy, its quite enough to make up lies to slander the person.

I don't know Darckness, I've never talked to him, I'm probably even spelling his name wrong. I tried his kernel on a lark and it seemed to work for me. I figured that it would be my little way to give back. If something blew up I'd file a bug report and move on with my life. Those patches aren't going to test themselves. Maybe they will end up in the kernel. I might try the love kernel next when I have some time. Up until now I've been quite happy with the gento dev kernel.

If I run into a problem with nitro I plan to submit a bug report on the nitro thread and then switch back to the gento_dev kernel. But thanks for your concern.

BTW did you help anyone on here today with a problem?
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dcrook wrote:
gentoo_lan wrote:
dcrook wrote:
gentoo_lan wrote:
Well they are taking nvidia and ati drivers out of the kernel (not because they violate the GPL - In their opinion, not mine) but because they just don't work. What a surprise.


Wow, that is news to me. I've been running nitro with the bundled ATI drivers for a week now for hours at a time without a single crash. But then again you must be right. I'm sure my system has been crashing every 10 minutes and I just never noticed it.

Do you do anything with your life other than get on Darckness's case about nitro? Does he break into your house in the dark of night and install Nitro on your helpless Gentoo system? Did he beat you up when you were a kid and take your milk money?

Maybe you should try going outside sometime or getting a girlfriend.


I don't need a girlfriend I have a wife.

Also when something violates the GPL everyone should get on a developers case...not just me. I happen to try to stand up for the GPL because it is vital to the opensource movement.

Your computer runs well with nitro and I my computer runs well without nitro. If you ever do have a problem though, good luck getting a gentoo developer to help you with it.


Thats great that you care that much about the GPL. Where exactly did you get your legal degree from? With the amount of scorn and vitriol you have been poring on Darckness I would assume that you are from FSF message board hit squad specially trained in legal issues like this. Oh wait, you aren't a lawyer. All that I have seen you do is make up lies about Darckness'es character. That was a nice touch with leaving out the "Not that" part of his quote when you were tearing into the man. Its one thing to say his kernel is buggy, its quite enough to make up lies to slander the person.

I don't know Darckness, I've never talked to him, I'm probably even spelling his name wrong. I tried his kernel on a lark and it seemed to work for me. I figured that it would be my little way to give back. If something blew up I'd file a bug report and move on with my life. Those patches aren't going to test themselves. Maybe they will end up in the kernel. I might try the love kernel next when I have some time. Up until now I've been quite happy with the gento dev kernel.

If I run into a problem with nitro I plan to submit a bug report on the nitro thread and then switch back to the gento_dev kernel. But thanks for your concern.

BTW did you help anyone on here today with a problem?


You should go ahead and look at my threads. For the most part I try and help people when I can.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ciaranm wrote:
uman wrote:
I used nitro for a few days, and yes, it is luck. I mean no offence by this, but really, you need more quality-control in nitro. Again, no offence.

I think 'some' would be a more appropriate word than 'more'.


I personally believe that nitro has quality controll, the nitro-devs can't test every little thing in every possible setting, there a 3 man team. Take this into account before stating such things. Also, as I stated before, I'm not taking sides here, just making a statement.

ciaranm wrote:
cbr wrote:
But it does. #nitro-sources on freenode. Only 3-4 ppl out there though...

The rest of them can't keep their machines up long enough to compile an IRC client.


This is truely a really cheap shot at nitro and is just random bashing which has no place anywhere.

gentoo_lan wrote:
ciaranm wrote:
cbr wrote:
But it does. #nitro-sources on freenode. Only 3-4 ppl out there though...

The rest of them can't keep their machines up long enough to compile an IRC client.


That is quite funny and quite true. Especially with the last nitro release. When you can't get it to compile right that is surely a bad sign.:D


gentoo_lan, the issues you are refering to are with nvati (read IT), correct? These are things darckness and tiger are working on, they just recently implamented and tested this on there machines, which means it far from perfect.

gentoo_lan wrote:
Well they are taking nvidia and ati drivers out of the kernel (not because they violate the GPL - In their opinion, not mine) but because they just don't work. What a surprise.


Read the above.

ciaranm wrote:
uman wrote:
ciaranm, you don't need to go on a crusade against nitro. If someone wants to use it, let them.

Oh, I have nothing against people using it. It's when those users start telling everyone else to use it and claiming that it doesn't have serious stability issues that I get annoyed. Remember, I'm one of the ones that has to deal with all the bogus bugs that get filed by users who got suckered in by the marketing speak and who don't know any better.


cairanm, nitro can be considered more experimental then ck, but ck can also be just as experimental as nitro, this is not at all times, but can happen from time to time. In terms of people using bugzilla to report kernel bugs from nitro, I can see how this would get annoying, but it is there fault for assuming it is the gentoo-devs job to fix that kind of stuff.

Reminder: I'm not trying to defend nitro, I am simply pointing out that your statements are quite flawed and require some thought instead of cheap-shots at known issues in the current kernel. Remember, bashing solves nothing.

Edit: I know there removing nvati :)
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hermes_jr wrote:
[imho] Nitro is used by absolutely insane people who prefer nonstable bleeding-edge software. I bet they use gcc 3.4 from the first hour it was released :) [/imho]


I tested both of them. Love lacks stability on my machine. I have had three crashes/freezes within 12 hours (reboot was needed). That's way too much, I changed back to Nitro, because it worked fine and stable for weeks before.

Of course these are personal experiences and have not to be universally valid.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm using the Nitro-Sources since I re-installed Gentoo november last year and I never had had any problems, crashes or freezes with the kernel. For me it works great and faster than all other kernels I testet before.

Rock On Nitro! :D
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both really take a performance hit, Why? Because when your system freezes you actually spend more time recovering from that then you do from the slight performance increase you can get (it wasn't anything too dramatic).

I think it's worth *testing* out both, maybe you'll like it.. Both seem to have some nice goodies in them, but for stability, it's always a good idea to stick with the kernel from the developers who know how to make a kernel all good n' stable, gentoo-sources and gentoo-dev-sources usually fare well with me.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've used love-sources since they were there and allways loved them, because i had a really bad notebook at that time.

Now i've used nitro for a while, because staircase is a great scheduler, and ck-sources when nitro was not running

Problem is, staircase seems to be stable now and there are no more wonders to expect.

love-sources have the genetic optimisation feature for nicksched. maybe thats just the next big thing.

-- marco
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a machine running love and my last two uptimes were 191 and 190 days respectively. That's over a year of love with only 2 reboots, and the reboots were to upgrade the kernel to a new love version. I use nitro on my desktop machine though, and my uptime right now is 14 days since I first booted up the kernel. I play games almost daily, compile all the time, etc. Maybe I'm just lucky with the whole stability thing, but usually when a kernel is messing up I rollback a version and stick with that or I wait for a new one to address the issue(s).

For the amount of flaming and negativity some of you kids give, you'd think you're getting paid to badmouth hobby-kernels.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Illissius wrote:
Eh. Fucking politics. Whatever happened to providing the features people want, whether they be ricey or not? (Don't answer. Politics killed it.)
And who's to decide what's 'ricey' and what's not, anyways? One could as well apply the same label to configurable mouse polling, reiser4, varstacks, and probably half of everything else.
I just find this whole ciaranm-and-gentoo_lan-got-their-panties-in-a-bunch-so-let's-remove-cflags-to-impress-them thing dumb, even if I don't use it. I doubt they'll suddenly become nitro lovers overnight just because you removed cflags. If people want to boost their egos by flaming nitro, ignore and/or fuck em.

Anyways. Sorry for the rant.

*compiles*
8-)


Actually I didn't give a rip about the cflags patch. Granted it caused the kernel to break and was a very ineffective patch. I was more concerned about nvidia and ati in the kernel. Since they have been removed it doesn't matter too much. It just means my ranting caused them to remove it.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vanilla. works great, and don't have broken code.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gentoo_lan: It was going to be removed regardless of your ranting. We don't keep broken features, and something that only works for half the users is considered a broken feature.

Naturally this will prompt someone to call reiser4 a broken feature. I eagerly await it.

EDIT: Don't bother telling me that reiser4 is considered broken. I am already aware of this. That's why I don't use it.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nitro :D , don't have any problems with it :)
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is an interesting but somewhat strange thread.

What makes me frown in the fact that several forum-mebers and developers seem to hate nitro-source with passion.

What ist the issue behind it?

I like those kernel sandboxes like love- or nitro-sources because they toy around, brake something first and fix it afterwards, report problems to the kernel-dev's, and ...
I think this is good for the kernel-development.

Personally i stick to gentoo-sources (sometimes vanilla) and im am happy with it.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sulu wrote:
What ist the issue behind it?

The issue is that it is totally unsuitable for non-test systems, and yet it is being marketed as being suitable for users. This in turn is leading to huge amounts of time wasted tracking down 'bugs' which turn out to be kernel problems.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

The issue is that it is totally unsuitable for non-test systems,


Fully ACK.

Quote:

and yet it is being marketed as being suitable for users.


I didnt realize that it had been marketed in any way.

Quote:

This in turn is leading to huge amounts of time wasted tracking down 'bugs' which turn out to be kernel problems.


Now your anger makes sense :?, so i guess you had some frustrating hours in chasing the wrong deer so to say.

But this does not solve anything. You will not chase away the love- or nitro-devs and i personally would not blame them.
It is the clueless hobby tinckerers who try all meaningless gcc-flags or build experimental kernels only to run into problems. My presumption is that excatly the same guys will then flodd bugzilla with misleading bugs.
If you know what you are doing nitro- or love-sources should not be any problem.
Just keep at least one working kernel around. :P
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darckness wrote:
gentoo_lan: It was going to be removed regardless of your ranting. We don't keep broken features, and something that only works for half the users is considered a broken feature.

Naturally this will prompt someone to call reiser4 a broken feature. I eagerly await it.


It is broken according to most developers. I have no idea but I am also not crazy enough to use it.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gentoo_lan wrote:
Darckness wrote:
gentoo_lan: It was going to be removed regardless of your ranting. We don't keep broken features, and something that only works for half the users is considered a broken feature.

Naturally this will prompt someone to call reiser4 a broken feature. I eagerly await it.


It is broken according to most developers. I have no idea but I am also not crazy enough to use it.


There is a reason why my only branch with reiser4 will be considered experimental, possibly broken and untested. I refuse to include reiser4 within my main kernel. I recommend that most users stay away from reiser4 for the fact it is almost always broken.
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