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kimchi_sg
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 Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 1:48 am Post subject: |
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I volunteer to build the generic x86 stage. It seems that catalyst doesn't allow me to cross-compile for another sub-architecture. Oh well.  |
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Bob P
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kimchi_sg
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 1:51 am Post subject: |
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I'm not. I sold my athlon-xp box yesterday. 
But I'm still determined to finish up a athlon stage before hitting the books. 
First, let me get my feet wet in catalyst. Argh... it refuses to make me a new portage snapshot. Guess i will have to fetch one.
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Sith_Happens
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 1:52 am Post subject: |
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| kimchi_sg wrote: | | I volunteer to build the generic x86 stage. It seems that catalyst doesn't allow me to cross-compile for another sub-architecture. Oh well. |
I think it does if you have the proper cross-compiler installed. BTW thanks for the wiki entry Bob, I'll set up the Apache server asap. I'm going to chroot it using mod-security, and I'll add the stage tarballs as the are built. I'll e-mail you guys with my DNS once I get everything set up.
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kimchi_sg
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 1:54 am Post subject: |
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| Sith_Happens wrote: | | kimchi_sg wrote: | | I volunteer to build the generic x86 stage. It seems that catalyst doesn't allow me to cross-compile for another sub-architecture. Oh well. |
I think it does if you have the proper cross-compiler installed. |
I know there are the CBUILD and CTARGET options in emerge. Maybe I shall fiddle with these. Inside of a chroot, of course.  |
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Sith_Happens
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 1:55 am Post subject: |
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| kimchi_sg wrote: | | Sith_Happens wrote: | | kimchi_sg wrote: | | I volunteer to build the generic x86 stage. It seems that catalyst doesn't allow me to cross-compile for another sub-architecture. Oh well. |
I think it does if you have the proper cross-compiler installed. |
I know there are the CBUILD and CTARGET options in emerge. Maybe I shall fiddle with these. Inside of a chroot, of course. |
Of course 
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Bob P
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 1:55 am Post subject: |
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let me get this straight -- now we've got 3 guys who are intel-only?
okay everybody, name your processors! i have the following on-hand:
pentium (classic)
pentium-mmx
pentium-pro
pentium3
from a practical standpoint, i could build any intel up to P3.
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96140
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 1:57 am Post subject: |
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Bob P
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:11 am Post subject: |
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on the subject of make.conf and cflags, these cflags have proven safe on all of my boxes. what do you guys think?
| Code: | gentoo root # cat /etc/make.conf
CHOST="i686-pc-linux-gnu"
# default cflags
CFLAGS="-march=pentium3"
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -mtune=pentium3"
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -pipe"
# (choose optimization level)
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -O3"
#CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -O2"
# (use these only if -O2, they are included in -O3)
# or use them redundantly to undermine flag stripping by ebuilds
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -fweb"
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -frename-registers"
# (choose additional flags as appropriate)
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -fforce-addr"
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -momit-leaf-frame-pointer"
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -fomit-frame-pointer"
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -ftracer"
CXXFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -fvisibility-inlines-hidden"
ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="x86"
PORTAGE_TMPDIR=/var/tmp
PORTDIR=/usr/portage
DISTDIR=${PORTDIR}/distfiles
PKGDIR=${PORTDIR}/packages
PORT_LOGDIR=/var/log/portage
#PORTDIR_OVERLAY=/usr/local/portage
SYNC="rsync://rsync.gentoo.org/gentoo-portage"
RSYNC_RETRIES="3"
RSYNC_TIMEOUT=180
PORTAGE_NICENESS=3
AUTOCLEAN="yes"
FEATURES="ccache distlocks maketest sandbox userpriv usersandbox"
MAKEOPTS="-j2"
CCACHE_SIZE="2G"
GENTOO_MIRRORS="<your mirror here> http://gentoo.osuosl.org http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/Linux/distributions/gentoo"
USE="nptl" |
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kimchi_sg
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:19 am Post subject: |
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Forget catalyst... it seems like too much work to get it started as of now.
I'll try to build the stages using good old chroot and see how it goes.  |
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Bob P
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:22 am Post subject: |
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| nightmorph wrote: | | As I understand it, the latest Pentiums use SSE2 and SSE3, but Athlons only support sse, so that'd be a consideration when deciding flag use. Is 686 the best one can come up with for a 'generic' ~x86 tarball? I think that after that point, the tarballs would have to be split between Pentium IV and Athlon, because Athlon supports things like 3dNow! and P4 can handle higher levels of SSE, but those are separate technologies for each processor. |
Pentium Classic:
fpu vme de pse tsc msr mce cx8
Pentium-MMX
fpu vme de pse tsc msr mce cx8 mmx
Pentium-Pro
fpu dme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 mtrr pge mca cmov
Pentium 3
fpu ume de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 mmx fxsr sse
K6
fpu vme de pse tsc msr mce cx8 mmx syscall 3dnow
this shows that pentium classic is the only common denominator for all of these platforms. AMD went incompatible with the K6 and the advent of 3dnow, and MMX breaks compatability with pentium-pro. i honestly don't know about the other AMD chips and whether there may be other branchpoints in compatability.
i would make the most basic tarball a 586 chost and pentium. its the minimum architecture that will support NPTL, and its the only architecture that supports all Intel and AMD platforms.
IMHO, the common denominator platform is the first one we should build -- pentium. in an absolute worst case scenario, everyone (including AMD people) could build using the pentium classic tarball and have 100% compatability with a modern GCC toolkit, then rebuild to suit their needs.
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96140
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:42 am Post subject: |
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Bob P
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 3:08 am Post subject: |
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| nightmorph wrote: | | Bob P wrote: | | IMHO, the common denominator platform is the first one we should build -- pentium. in an absolute worst case scenario, everyone (including AMD people) could build using the pentium classic tarball and have 100% compatability with a modern GCC toolkit, then rebuild to suit their needs. |
So they would have to do the same amount of compiling as currently exists in the Stage 1/3 guide, with the exception of first enabling ~x86 TC packages? |
i'd like to put an end to the debate by repeating that i am selfish and i really do not care about the AMD problem until the Intel problem has been solved. 
but seriously, right now we have 3 guys with intel only platforms and no AMD users in sight who are willing to do any heavy lifting. so it matters not who complains or how loud they complain. right now AMD is not in the picture.
i realize that as soon as we have something for Intel, AMD guys will ask why we didn't do it for them. well, AMD is not intel, and as far as i am concerned, it might as well be Sparc or Alpha. for the impatient people who are invariably going to dog us about AMD the moment that they hear that we've done something special for Intel ~x86, i would suggest that we reply that we are Intel users and we built something for ourselves. linux is open source, and AMD guys are free to follow our lead if they so desire. as a peace offering, we can point them to a pentium ~x86 compatible platform that will have to be good enough on a take it or leave it basis.
a GCC 343 pentium platform will work better than a GCC 334 pentium platform, so no, the amount of compile time would not be the same. starting with a GCC 343 toolkit means that they'll only have to rebuild once, not twice. if that isn't good enough, then somebody needs to step up to the plate and tackle the problem instead of expecting us to do it. today, AMD is so far down on our list that we're not considering it. from my perspective, its not worth discussing any further until we have the rest of the project finished. but then i'm only one guy and i do not presume to speak for everyone. in the interim, if anyone wants to start on AMD, go ahead and let us know when you're ready to upload the stage tarball.
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Sith_Happens
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 3:35 am Post subject: |
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Like I said I'll create generic i686 and i586 stages, and the AMD guys can use those and recompile with whatever CFLAGS they want. Also, you have to realize nightmorph that this project came into being around 11:00 this morning, and although I agree that AMD stages would be part of any complete x86 install, give us a little more time. To answer your architecture question, I've got a bunch of Pentium 4s', a 200 mhz PPro, some old 200 mhz pentium mmx's, and a 4.77 mhz XT . However, what's nice is because I've got a P4, I can take full advantage of backwards compatibility.
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Bob P
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Bob P
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 3:58 am Post subject: |
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you have a 4.77 MHz XT! that has to be your first PC, right?
i still have a 286 that was built hand by Michael Dell when he was still building them in his college apartment under the name of "PCs Limited."
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Sith_Happens
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 4:04 am Post subject: |
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| Bob P wrote: | you have a 4.77 MHz XT! that has to be your first PC, right?
i still have a 286 that was built hand by Michael Dell when he was still building them in his college apartment under the name of "PCs Limited." |
Nice, I just have wonderful memories playing commander keen in 8 shades of grey on my Compuadd XT. I've still got it in my room at home, it runs great. As far as the make.conf's go, those look good to me. Here is what I'm compiling with now: | Code: | CFLAGS="-march=pentium4 -O3 -fforce-addr -momit-leaf-frame-pointer -fomit-frame-pointer -ftracer -pipe"
CHOST="i686-pc-linux-gnu"
CXXFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -fvisibility-inlines-hidden"
GENTOO_MIRRORS="<your_mirror_here"
USE="nptl"
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If you want I can add ccache to the stage, but I think it's better to leave that to the individual user, seeing as it uses disc space (I give it 4 gigs on my system). I'll add all the other options if you like, personally I just use the default for most of the other variables. Here is the make.conf on my system: | Code: | CFLAGS="-march=pentium4 -mtune=pentium4 -O3 -pipe -ffast-math -fforce-addr -fomit-frame-pointer
-ftracer -momit-leaf-frame-pointer -msse2 -mfpmath=sse,387"
CXXFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -fvisibility-inlines-hidden"# -fvisibility=hidden"
CHOST="i686-pc-linux-gnu"
MAKEOPTS="-j2"
USE="gtk -gnome -qt -kde alsa dvd cdr -arts nptl sse sse2 mmx mmx2 cups foomaticdb ppds usb mtrr"
ALSA_CARDS="intel8x0"
GENTOO_MIRRORS=<insert_mirror>
FEATURES="ccache"
CCACHE_SIZE="4G"
PORT_LOGDIR="/var/log/portage"
PORTDIR_OVERLAY="/usr/local/portage"
PKGDIR="/usr/portage/packages"
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"That question was less stupid; though you asked it in a profoundly stupid way."
I'm the brains behind Jackass! | Tutorials: Shorewall
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96140
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 4:26 am Post subject: |
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Sith_Happens
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 4:59 am Post subject: |
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| nightmorph wrote: | | Sith_Happens wrote: | | Like I said I'll create generic i686 and i586 stages, and the AMD guys can use those and recompile with whatever CFLAGS they want. Also, you have to realize nightmorph that this project came into being around 11:00 this morning, and although I agree that AMD stages would be part of any complete x86 install, give us a little more time. To answer your architecture question, I've got a bunch of Pentium 4s', a 200 mhz PPro, some old 200 mhz pentium mmx's, and a 4.77 mhz XT . However, what's nice is because I've got a P4, I can take full advantage of backwards compatibility. |
Oh, no; I'm sorry if I came across as pushy. I don't even have an AMD; I'm on a P3 here! I just thought that the tarballs would be universal enough to include AMD. But since I now clearly that this is only for Intel chips, never mind!
When I thought of an ~x86 toolchain CD (though of course I'm not the first to ever think of it!), I didn't know exactly how I'd go about coming up with tarballs, but I was certainly be willing to test whatever's created. If this had come up at the beginning of the weekend, I would have had some more time to figure out how to take apart an existing tarball, rebuild the toolchain, and put everything back in. But as it is, I'm more than willing to be a tester for the tarballs, assuming that they aren't for P4. It seems as if Sith is already hard at work on creating the tarballs themselves. |
Hey man no problem. As far as testing the tarballs, Once they are built I'll be sure to give you a pm. We need to work on some kind of distribution meathod, but I'll give you my DNS once I get the apache server set up. I'm thinking if I set up an ftp server as well, but I'm going to restrict it to Bob and kimchi for now, but a chrooted http server is fairly secure, and I'm sure I can trust you. What's nice about my university set up is I can change my DNS name as well as my IP as many times as I want, so if I end up getting too much traffic, I can always shut it down, and "move to another town".
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kimchi_sg
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:10 am Post subject: |
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I'm building the generic x86 tarball now. I'll only be compiling with | Code: | | CFLAGS="-O2 -mcpu=i686 -fomit-frame-pointer -pipe" |
since most likely the toolchain components will be recompiled with more aggressive settings anyway. The rest of the make.conf is copied from the 1st phase of the stage 1-on-3 tutorial.
EDIT: I think I'm out of the game.
| Code: | i386-pc-linux-gnu-gcc localealias.c -c -std=gnu99 -O2 -Wall -Winline -Wstrict-prototypes -Wwrite-strings -finline-limit=2000 -mcpu=i686 -pipe -mpreferred-stack-boundary=2 -fPIC -g0 -O99 -fomit-frame-pointer -D__USE_STRING_INLINES -I../include -I. -I/var/tmp/portage/glibc-2.3.4.20050125-r1/work/build-default-i386-pc-linux-gnu-linuxthreads/intl -I.. -I../libio -I/var/tmp/portage/glibc-2.3.4.20050125-r1/work/build-default-i386-pc-linux-gnu-linuxthreads -I../sysdeps/i386/elf -I../linuxthreads/sysdeps/unix/sysv/linux/i386 -I../linuxthreads/sysdeps/unix/sysv/linux -I../linuxthreads/sysdeps/pthread -I../sysdeps/pthread -I../linuxthreads/sysdeps/unix/sysv -I../linuxthreads/sysdeps/unix -I../linuxthreads/sysdeps/i386 -I../libidn/sysdeps/unix -I../sysdeps/unix/sysv/linux/i386 -I../sysdeps/unix/sysv/linux -I../sysdeps/gnu -I../sysdeps/unix/common -I../sysdeps/unix/mman -I../sysdeps/unix/inet -I../sysdeps/unix/sysv/i386 -I../sysdeps/unix/sysv -I../sysdeps/unix/i386 -I../sysdeps/unix -I../sysdeps/posix -I../sysdeps/i386/fpu -I../sysdeps/i386 -I../sysdeps/wordsize-32 -I../sysdeps/ieee754/ldbl-96 -I../sysdeps/ieee754/dbl-64 -I../sysdeps/ieee754/flt-32 -I../sysdeps/ieee754 -I../sysdeps/generic/elf -I../sysdeps/generic -nostdinc -isystem /usr/lib/gcc-lib/i386-pc-linux-gnu/3.3.5/include -isystem /usr/include -D_LIBC_REENTRANT -include ../include/libc-symbols.h -DPIC -DSHARED -D'LOCALEDIR="/usr/share/locale"' -D'LOCALE_ALIAS_PATH="/usr/share/locale"' -o /var/tmp/portage/glibc-2.3.4.20050125-r1/work/build-default-i386-pc-linux-gnu-linuxthreads/intl/localealias.os -MD -MP -MF /var/tmp/portage/glibc-2.3.4.20050125-r1/work/build-default-i386-pc-linux-gnu-linuxthreads/intl/localealias.os.dt -MT /var/tmp/portage/glibc-2.3.4.20050125-r1/work/build-default-i386-pc-linux-gnu-linuxthreads/intl/localealias.os
loadmsgcat.c: In function `_nl_init_domain_conv':
../sysdeps/i386/bits/string.h:655: error: can't find a register in class `GENERAL_REGS' while reloading `asm'
make[2]: *** [/var/tmp/portage/glibc-2.3.4.20050125-r1/work/build-default-i386-pc-linux-gnu-linuxthreads/intl/loadmsgcat.os] Error 1
make[2]: *** Waiting for unfinished jobs....
make[2]: Leaving directory `/var/tmp/portage/glibc-2.3.4.20050125-r1/work/glibc-2.3.4/intl'
make[1]: *** [intl/subdir_lib] Error 2
make[1]: Leaving directory `/var/tmp/portage/glibc-2.3.4.20050125-r1/work/glibc-2.3.4'
make: *** [all] Error 2 |
[OT]
I'm also considering a stage 1 tarball with ~x86 toolchain. I'd be able to host it myself, since it is smaller. Any violent objections?
[/OT]
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Sith_Happens
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:18 am Post subject: |
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Your building a generic x86 stage with -mcpu=i686? I thought we were using the pentium as our base. Also, if your building with NPTL make sure you set the chost variable to at least i586, otherwise it won't work.
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kimchi_sg
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:21 am Post subject: |
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| Sith_Happens wrote: | | Your building a generic x86 stage with -mcpu=i686? I thought we were using the pentium as our base. Also, if your building with NPTL make sure you set the chost variable to at least i586, otherwise it won't work. |
Oops. Pentium and CHOST="i586-pc-linux-gnu" it is then. 
P.S. It was my fault. CHOST was set to i386-pc-linux-gnu. |
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Sith_Happens
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:23 am Post subject: |
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| kimchi_sg wrote: | | Sith_Happens wrote: | | Your building a generic x86 stage with -mcpu=i686? I thought we were using the pentium as our base. Also, if your building with NPTL make sure you set the chost variable to at least i586, otherwise it won't work. |
Oops. Pentium and CHOST="i586-pc-linux-gnu" it is then. |
It's cool, I'd say -march=pentium with CHOST="i586-pc-linux-gnu" will probably make a good base x86 stage. Remember, at this point we are building intel specific stages: pentium, pentium2, pentium3, pentium4. Once somebody with an Athlon comes along, we'll let them build some AMD stages, then well package them up into two live-cd's and be good to go. Also, remember to change your gcc profile with gcc-config after compiling gcc 3.4.3. Run gcc-config -l first, because it seems these stages ship with quite a few profiles.
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kimchi_sg
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:52 am Post subject: |
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| For USE flags, I will be leaving the dev-provided defaults untouched. That includes fortran and gtk, which gcc listens to. Any opposition? |
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Sith_Happens
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 7:05 am Post subject: |
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| kimchi_sg wrote: | | For USE flags, I will be leaving the dev-provided defaults untouched. That includes fortran and gtk, which gcc listens to. Any opposition? |
I thought we decided we decided on USE="nptl" for the stages, and let people modify and emerge -uN world later.
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