| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
hrnick
Guru
Joined: 31 Aug 2002
Posts: 425
Location: Sweden
|
 Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 6:15 pm Post subject: Major reiser4 breakdown |
 |
|
When I came home today after beeing away from home for a week my computer started to complain about input/output errors when trying to start programs. The next time I made a reboot it simply didn't boot linux at all, it didn't even find grub.
So, I put my reiser4 livecd into the cd-rom and rebooted, now things started to get strange. fsck.reiser4 can't find any file system, if I run it with the --build-fs flags it gives the following error: "NO REISER4 METADATA WERE FOUND. FS RECOVERY IS NOT POSSIBLE"
Is this just a hardware problem or can it have something to do with reiser4, I recall that I upgraded reiser4progs to version 1.0.4 just before I turned off the computer the last time before the problems started.
Any ideas, I don't honestly don't know what to do right now, just anything really...
I'm sorry I can't give any more detailed information but all the logs are on the affected partitions, I'll try to answer as good as I can on any questions... :/
And please, don't come with that you-shoud-have-made-a-backup-talk, I know I should have... |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
brantgurga
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 75
Location: Indianapolis, IN
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 6:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| To try and rule out hard drive failure, you might try a livecd with smartmontools on it and make sure all of the SMART attributes of your hard drive are above their thresholds. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hrnick
Guru
Joined: 31 Aug 2002
Posts: 425
Location: Sweden
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 6:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
*downloading from http://www.sysresccd.org*
Anything else I can do in the meantime? It will take another 30 minutes with my connection... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
feld
Guru
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 593
Location: WI, USA
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 6:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
i'd honestly say its a hardware problem. you think they would have come across this in the last year.
REMEMBER
it WAS stated quite bluntly that Reiser4 WILL SHOW WEAKNESS in hardware --- many drives will break down and die if they cannot handle what it requires due to flaws in the device.
-Feld
_________________
< bmg505> I think the first line in reiserfsck is
if (random(65535)< 65500) { hose(partition); for (i=0;i<100000000;i++) print_crap(); } |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ciaranm
Retired Dev
Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Posts: 1719
Location: In Hiding
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| feld wrote: | | it WAS stated quite bluntly that Reiser4 WILL SHOW WEAKNESS in hardware --- many drives will break down and die if they cannot handle what it requires due to flaws in the device. |
Ah ha h ah aha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dogshu
Apprentice
Joined: 22 Jun 2003
Posts: 173
Location: New Haven, CT, USA
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 12:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
There were definitely problems with the first official patch for 2.6.11... I got undeletable, corrupted files when using that patch. Fortunately they were all under /var/tmp, so I just backed up the filesystem, then re-ran mkfs.reiser4 and copied the data back. The second 2.6.11 patch works fine for me, looks like there's a third out now though:
ftp://ftp.namesys.com/pub/reiser4-for-2.6/2.6.11/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vrln
Guru
Joined: 11 Sep 2004
Posts: 534
Location: Finland
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 9:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Ironically enough I've never had any problems with my reiser4 partition, but the reiser3 / one did break down on chritmas day.
disclaimer: yes I know reiser4 is unstable etc and not meant to be used at this stage and that this is just funny luck
_________________
Interested in E17? Get Enlightened by reading the user guide. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Archangel1
Veteran
Joined: 21 Apr 2004
Posts: 1212
Location: Work
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 9:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
| vrln wrote: | | disclaimer: yes I know reiser4 is unstable etc and not meant to be used at this stage and that this is just funny luck |
Actually I don't think it is meant to be unstable any more - it hasn't been merged into vanilla because of political issues rather than it still being in beta.
[url]namesys.com[/url] certainly makes it look like it's ready.
I haven't had any issues with it in ages.
_________________
What are you, stupid? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ciaranm
Retired Dev
Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Posts: 1719
Location: In Hiding
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 9:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Archangel1 wrote: | | [url]namesys.com[/url] certainly makes it look like it's ready. |
Well yes, but then microsoft.com says that Linux has a higher TCO than Windows. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
superstoned
Guru
Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 432
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ciaranm wrote: | | Archangel1 wrote: | | [url]namesys.com[/url] certainly makes it look like it's ready. |
Well yes, but then microsoft.com says that Linux has a higher TCO than Windows. |
LOL
but hey, every filesystem breaks now and then. duh reiser4 is no exeption... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rhill
Retired Dev
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 1629
Location: sk.ca
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Archangel1 wrote: | | Actually I don't think it is meant to be unstable any more - it hasn't been merged into vanilla because of political issues rather than it still being in beta. |
the political issues being it's locking problems, poor interactivity, shoddy alt-arch support, or the fact that the only people that actually claim R4 is stable are Namesys and end users repeating Namesys marketing fluff verbatim? no it's not beta any longer. that doesn't make it stable.
_________________
by design, by neglect
for a fact or just for effect |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
superstoned
Guru
Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 432
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 12:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| dirtyepic wrote: | | Archangel1 wrote: | | Actually I don't think it is meant to be unstable any more - it hasn't been merged into vanilla because of political issues rather than it still being in beta. |
the political issues being it's locking problems, poor interactivity, shoddy alt-arch support, or the fact that the only people that actually claim R4 is stable are Namesys and end users repeating Namesys marketing fluff verbatim? no it's not beta any longer. that doesn't make it stable. |
Read the kernel mailinglists, quite some arguments against reiser4 where like "why do we need another filesystem" (eg why not dump jfs, xfs and ext2 if ext3 does the job?) and "hey reiser4 can do things other filesystems can't, lets not allow reiser4 in the kernel" (eg stop working on the kernel, 1.0 did a fine job. why do we need features?).
OK, the locking thing has to be fixed (and they are working on it). the interactivity will benefit from this. and well, its new, so no-one can say it is stable. but don't say it is unstable unless you can prove it (so: give a nice how-to to lose data with reiser4).
if ext3 is fine for you, thats nice. but don't say we don't need other filesystems. reiser4 and ZFS are the only INNOVATING filesystems. We should support that, stable or not. and as ZFS isn't gpl, and reiser4 is...
if you don't want innovation, stop wining, continue using you'r comodore 64 or apple II and don't bother anyone. if you want innovation, then help testing reiser4 (or other innovations, as there are many things going on) or don't bother anyone.
thanx.
sorry for being rude, but some people are so clueless negative concerning reiser4, and I don't see why. did Hans kill your dog? wazzup? He is spending time to create a new filesystem. a filesystem that is ready for the future. he might not create a perfect filesystem, but at least he is trying to innovate! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
gringo
Advocate
Joined: 27 Apr 2003
Posts: 3793
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | sorry for being rude, but some people are so clueless negative concerning reiser4, and I don't see why. did Hans kill your dog? |
well, i believe you didnt read on lkml ... search a bit and you´ll know why some devs dont like reiser4.
I really cant say its faster than any other fs i had running here, just my impressions of course, have no numbers.
cheers
_________________
Error: Failing not supported by current locale |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
superstoned
Guru
Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 432
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 3:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| gringo wrote: | | Quote: | | sorry for being rude, but some people are so clueless negative concerning reiser4, and I don't see why. did Hans kill your dog? |
well, i believe you didnt read on lkml ... search a bit and you´ll know why some devs dont like reiser4.
I really cant say its faster than any other fs i had running here, just my impressions of course, have no numbers.
cheers |
I did read lkml, altought the entire tread is very big 
but there where some arguments, but also alot bashing and flaming. all I see is dev's that really like their precious current hacks on ancient filesystems, and don't like the fact the new one seems to have done some things right, for the first time. but hey, that's just me. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ciaranm
Retired Dev
Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Posts: 1719
Location: In Hiding
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 3:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| superstoned wrote: | | but there where some arguments, but also alot bashing and flaming. all I see is dev's that really like their precious current hacks on ancient filesystems, and don't like the fact the new one seems to have done some things right, for the first time. but hey, that's just me. |
...except that the "precious current hacks on ancient filesystems" are doing things properly, and reiser4 is doing everything the wrong way. Dismissing it as old broken behaviour is completely wrong -- things are the way they are for a lot of very good reasons, and reiser4's new 'features' are done in completely the wrong way. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
superstoned
Guru
Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 432
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 4:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ciaranm wrote: | | superstoned wrote: | | but there where some arguments, but also alot bashing and flaming. all I see is dev's that really like their precious current hacks on ancient filesystems, and don't like the fact the new one seems to have done some things right, for the first time. but hey, that's just me. |
...except that the "precious current hacks on ancient filesystems" are doing things properly, and reiser4 is doing everything the wrong way. Dismissing it as old broken behaviour is completely wrong -- things are the way they are for a lot of very good reasons, and reiser4's new 'features' are done in completely the wrong way. |
Linus himself said he didn't like the 'old way' at all, saying it was an ugly hack. (are we talking about the same? I am talking about this post
anyway, reiser4 also makes things possible the old system couldn't do - that's better by definition, imho. And about the 'every file is a directory', I hope they can find some way to make it possible. that's what (kernel)hackers are for
and of course, there is this now... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
firephoto
Veteran
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 1612
Location: +48° 5' 23.40", -119° 48' 30.00"
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 5:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Most people that have a vested interest in something will resist change no matter if it's right or wrong but just because it is a change. If you go way back on the lkml you'll see that reiserfs v3 had the same "love" when it was presented to the kernel devs. It's also pretty easy to bash/trash/belittle/troll-about/make-false-claims about something when you don't even use it's earlier version and never intend to use either one. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
superstoned
Guru
Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 432
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 5:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| firephoto wrote: | | Most people that have a vested interest in something will resist change no matter if it's right or wrong but just because it is a change. If you go way back on the lkml you'll see that reiserfs v3 had the same "love" when it was presented to the kernel devs. It's also pretty easy to bash/trash/belittle/troll-about/make-false-claims about something when you don't even use it's earlier version and never intend to use either one. |
exactly. of course, others welcome new developments, no matter how disruptive they are, just because they are new 
but, I'd choose new over old anytime... just because its more exiting. if I wanted to use old tech, I'd go for Microsoft Windows. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
gentoo_lan
l33t
Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 891
Location: Charles Town, WV
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ciaranm wrote: | | feld wrote: | | it WAS stated quite bluntly that Reiser4 WILL SHOW WEAKNESS in hardware --- many drives will break down and die if they cannot handle what it requires due to flaws in the device. |
Ah ha h ah aha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. |
Reiser4 has serious problems and shouldn't be used for any data you don't want corrupted or destroyed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ciaranm
Retired Dev
Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Posts: 1719
Location: In Hiding
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| gentoo_lan wrote: | | ciaranm wrote: | | feld wrote: | | it WAS stated quite bluntly that Reiser4 WILL SHOW WEAKNESS in hardware --- many drives will break down and die if they cannot handle what it requires due to flaws in the device. |
Ah ha h ah aha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. |
Reiser4 has serious problems and shouldn't be used for any data you don't want corrupted or destroyed. |
Much better. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rhill
Retired Dev
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 1629
Location: sk.ca
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 5:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
| superstoned wrote: | | dirtyepic wrote: | | Archangel1 wrote: | | Actually I don't think it is meant to be unstable any more - it hasn't been merged into vanilla because of political issues rather than it still being in beta. |
the political issues being it's locking problems, poor interactivity, shoddy alt-arch support, or the fact that the only people that actually claim R4 is stable are Namesys and end users repeating Namesys marketing fluff verbatim? no it's not beta any longer. that doesn't make it stable. |
Read the kernel mailinglists, |
i do..
| Quote: | | quite some arguments against reiser4 where like "why do we need another filesystem" (eg why not dump jfs, xfs and ext2 if ext3 does the job?) and "hey reiser4 can do things other filesystems can't, lets not allow reiser4 in the kernel" (eg stop working on the kernel, 1.0 did a fine job. why do we need features?). |
that's not what i'm talking about. yes i agree that there are some kernel devs that have that attitude, and hate anything that doesn't fit in with their cookie-cutter view of what needs doing, but that wasn't what i was referring to. i'm talking about technical flaws in the filesystem itself.
| Quote: | | OK, the locking thing has to be fixed (and they are working on it). the interactivity will benefit from this. and well, its new, so no-one can say it is stable. but don't say it is unstable unless you can prove it (so: give a nice how-to to lose data with reiser4). |
cool. when they do it might be considered for inclusion.
here you go, step by step.
install gentoo using LVM2 disk management.
create R4 /usr/portage, /var, and /home logical volume partitions on hda4.
create ext3 /usr, /tmp, and /opt/ logical volume partitions partitions on hda4.
reboot a couple times
for extra fun, you can then try resizing your /home lv partition. then you can play with reiserfsck all day long.
| Quote: | | if ext3 is fine for you, thats nice. but don't say we don't need other filesystems. reiser4 and ZFS are the only INNOVATING filesystems. We should support that, stable or not. and as ZFS isn't gpl, and reiser4 is... |
i didn't say anything like that. you can see everything i said quoted above. i don't even use ext3. it seems you're making up an argument for me.
i'm all for innovation and filesystems kicking other filesystems' asses and etc. what i'm against is broken software that people claim works perfectly despite overwhelming and independant evidence to the contrary. i switched to linux to get away from that kind of thing.
_________________
by design, by neglect
for a fact or just for effect |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
firephoto
Veteran
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 1612
Location: +48° 5' 23.40", -119° 48' 30.00"
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
A quick search of the forums brings up a fair amount of problems with lvm2 so I wouldn't say it's a very good choice for coming up with a sure way of "breaking reiser4" when lvm2 can be at fault just as much.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gentree
Watchman
Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Posts: 5350
Location: France, Old Europe
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
quite so,
| Quote: | | for extra fun, you can then try resizing your /home lv partition. then you can play with reiserfsck all day long. |
If I understand what you posted that is an lv operation that caused the problem, so why blame R4?
Personally, I have only had one problem that I put down to R4 and it turned out to be a flakey PCI usb2 card that I had installed.
If I unjustly blamed R4 and was slow to see it was the hardware it was probably because I was influenced by all the crap that gets thrown at R4.
I have all my portage and portage_tmpdir on R4 so it gets that hardest thrashing my usage puts on the system. I have not had any issues since it was released as v1.0
That's subjective , but it works fine for me.
_________________
Linux, because I'd rather own a free OS than steal one that's not worth paying for.
Gentoo because I'm a masochist
AthlonXP-M on A7N8X. Portage ~x86 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
superstoned
Guru
Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 432
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Gentree wrote: | quite so,
| Quote: | | for extra fun, you can then try resizing your /home lv partition. then you can play with reiserfsck all day long. |
If I understand what you posted that is an lv operation that caused the problem, so why blame R4?
Personally, I have only had one problem that I put down to R4 and it turned out to be a flakey PCI usb2 card that I had installed.
If I unjustly blamed R4 and was slow to see it was the hardware it was probably because I was influenced by all the crap that gets thrown at R4.
I have all my portage and portage_tmpdir on R4 so it gets that hardest thrashing my usage puts on the system. I have not had any issues since it was released as v1.0
That's subjective , but it works fine for me.
|
look, that's why I don't agree with people saying its fundamentally broken. How can something work for so many people when it is 'fundamentally broken' etc etc? Ok, it has bugs. all software has bugs, especially if it's such a complex piece of software, and relatively new. But I don't expect a 'fundamentally broken' filesystem to work for a year or more on portage and portage's tmpdir (and some people even use it as root) without problems.
@ dirtyepic
my post wasn't only meant for you - it was more directed to those claiming reiser4 is (I say it again) fundamentally broken, which is imho utter crap. KDE breaks sometimes, so does ext3, so does gnome, so does open-office. does this mean they are fundamentally broken? of course not. they have bugs. duh. all software has.
anyway, I'll back off - I shouldn't spend my time fighting people over a silly filesystem
we'll see what time will bring us... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venkat
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 18 Sep 2003
Posts: 110
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 2:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
i have been running reiser4 on /usr, /var, /home, /tmp, /opt, except for / on which i have reiser3. i have been running it since it was deemed stable with very few problems. i had to repair/update it a couple of times, but no data loss. i'm running a fairly unstable system, i mostly run a love or cko kernel.
having said this, i don't imply that reiser4 is all stable and ready. it is a new filesystem. it has its own share of bugs. being a filesystem, it is one of the core components of the OS. it has to co-exist with other core components that are buggy too (no component is bug free, we all know that!). so there is a chance that a bug here and bug there can work together to wreak havoc. this might be a case with lvm and reiser4 issue posted above.
why people are getting mad about reiser4 is that when a filesystem breaks, it takes away all your data. it gets a bit personal there. in my opinion, i'd still like to treat reiser4 as experimental, until it really stabilizes and co-exists with other core components in peace. that'll take years, after a filesystem is built completely. anybody who understands filesystems' complexity will understand this too. regarding namesys's decision to deem this baking period "stable" or "semi-stable" is really up to them. whether to include this in stable kernel release is torvald's decision.
in a nutshell, i'd rather critcize on how this things is being hyped/marketted (false benchmarks, claims on performance, stability and all that in its current state) than criticizing the filesystem itself. it looks to me as a great filesystem by design. it has tremendous scope for expansion. it is atomic. it can support meta data and all that. what it needs is more and more tinkering to make it rock stable. that'll happen in course of time.
these are ofcourse my perceptions, ymmv
_________________
http://venkatu.dotgeek.org/blog/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
Unsupported Software
