Trying to get my head around Gentoo

[plockery]

I have installed Gentoo 2004.3 - genkernel and KDE - according to instructions in the handbook - certainly took a long time!
But now I am trying to understand a bit more about how Gentoo operates in comparison to other distros such as slackware, debian etc. so I can make some decisions about what to stay with in the future.
If some people would like to clear up my fog, that would be good.

Here goes:

1. As I understand it Gentoo basically installs by compiling everything from source? Is that correct?

2. If you use the genkernel + binary packagesCD, is that virtually equivalent to a slackware or debian install?

3. What in practical terms is the advantage of a genkernel + source install from portage over a binary install say like debian? Is it just speed as you can pick what packages to install with debian?

4. I thought I read somwhere that the Gentoo releases are basically install releases and that once you "sync" and "update" it all ends up the same. Hence why there is no reason to install new releases. Is that correct?

5. What happens, though, if you change your hardware at a later date? Won't Gentoo have to be reinstalled all over again then?

6. I noticed when that a new kernel (2.6.11) was downloaded but not used (I was using 2.6.9). Can I just use the new kernel by copying it over to the /boot and making the appropriate change in Lilo?

7. Is it possible having installed Gentoo with the genkernel to then go back and have a go at manually compiling and use a kernel? If so how would one go about doing that?

8. I presume the biggest advantage of Gentoo over slackware/debian etc. is its ability to be continually updated, rather than have to wait for new releases of the other distros. Is that correct?

I have tried to look around a fair bit in the documentation, but have not quite found direct answers to these questions.
Any guidance would be most appreciated.
Thanks

Peter

[racoontje]

1. There are exceptions (non-stage1 installs, GRP), but that's the big idea, yes.
2. Gentoo still lets you tinker a lot more IMHO. It's possible to do the same in Slack or Debian, yes. You will be missing out on 90% of the install options that make Gentoo so nice, like USE flags.
3. Genkernel? Ick!
4. Pretty much, there are some differences that are more than simply a sync + emerge -uav world away (udev, nptl...) but there's nothing you can't do to upgrade old isntalls.
5. Nope. Unless you go from, say, Athlon64 to P4, since athlon64 binaries are incompatible with p4's (maybe, if they have EM64T, you can get some work done)... Other hardware is kernel level so you could do with just a recompile.
6. You download kernel SOURCES, not images.
7. genkernel is a tool to configure your kernel, you can always just make menuconfig on kernel sources later.
8. Not really, debian provides apt so you stay up to date too. I guess you'll have to use Gentoo to know why we all like it

[plockery]

Thanks racoontje for the info.
But my knowledge is very patchy so I wonder if i could clarify a few things:

Re 2.
An embarrassing question: what is IMHO? And is there a list of these abbreviations somewhere so I can learn them myself?

USE flags. Yes I forgot to ask about them.
A. Are they exclusive to Gentoo in the way it operates?
B. Is the main advantage in using them that Gentoo is leaner because it doesn't have unnecessary support built in for options that wont be used?
C. When I installed Gentoo, I missed adding some use flags in my make.conf. I needed "ppds" to load a cups gimp-print driver for my printer and "samba" so that the lan browser could see data on a windows machine on my home network. Two questions here. How do you know whether a USE flag is needed sytem wide rather than just for a particular package? How do you install a USE flag after the event on a system wide basis (USE="xxx" + what?)?
D. I use KDE. If I now wanted to get rid of all the gnome stuff that was compiled because gnome was in the make.defaults file and not eliminated by me in the make.conf file, could I do it? If so what command would accomplish this across the system?

Re 3.
Ok this may be ick to those in the know. But since Gentoo takes a long time (hours and days) to get it to where you want it, I was wondering why everbody does not begin with a genkernel + binary package install (a lot shorter) and then do a "sync" and "uD" with appropriate USE flags later (overnight or something). Is that not much neater and faster? What am I missing here?

Re 6.
So Gentoo boots from the kernel image and not the sources? How then does one convert the downloaded sources into an image and update the boot image?

re 8.
Can I ask then if debian can be updated also what are the major things about Gentoo that attract you to it over something like Debian?

One further question if I may.

When you install with a genkernel you end up with an init.d and appropriate entries to this in Lilo. When you compile your own kernel, you don't. I presume that is because the genkernel install to some extent is always checking for you hardware on every bootup. Is that right?
What happens then at a later stage after a genkernel boot if you compile your own via menuconfig? Does that mean init.d no longer applies? And how then would you add a new service to load by default via rc-update?
Obviously I don't really understand how the genkernel and the "make your own" variety are related.

Hope I'm not being too much of a bother. If there were docs I could read that would clear up some of these things that would be good. But so far I have not found them.

Peter

[Pithlit]

IMHO == In My Humble Oppinion

USE flags:
A - Yes
B - Yes
C - Add the use flag you need into /etc/make.conf and recompile the relevant packages or do # emerge --newuse world
D - "# emerge -C gnome-package" or alternatively "# emerge -p --depclean" read what it says and if you think you're save do it again without the -p option (it's safer to remove packages one by one).

On Re3: Who could then brag they did a stage 1 install?

On Re6: You compile the kernel exactly the same way as any other appy. Only that with kernel the result is called image and not binary (basically same thing tho).

On Re8: It's a personal prefference. Linux == Linux no matter what distro you use. I like how Gentoo handles things.

Genkerner generates a generic kernel that should work on most boxes. If you build your own you can trim out unnecesary things and make the image smaller and faster. When you make your own the init file becomes redundant and you don't need that line in lilo. You always add/remove services with rc-update.

[Omega21]

[dol-sen]

To get rid of gnome will be a chore. The gnome package is just a metapackage to make it easier to load all the gnome system. If you search the forums you will find the answer to all the steps you will have to do.

To make it easier to find out info there are several gui frontends to portage. Porthole is a gtk based one that does work in KDE. There are native KDE frontends, kentoo & kuroo. But I'm biased since I use gnome and develop porthole.

For the most part you will find that almost any problem you encounter you will find a solution already posted somewhere in the forums. If your like me you may just be searching for the wrong things to get the correct answers.

I think you will enjoy useing gentoo after you get used to how everything works.

Welcome
_________________
Brian
Porthole, the Portage GUI frontend irc@freenode: #gentoo-guis, #porthole, Blog
layman, gentoolkit, CoreBuilder, esearch...

[plockery]

Thanks all for the info.
Have a lot better feel now for what is going on!
The community certainly does seem responsive here... a great plus for people seeking to understand and learn rather than just use the software.

Much appreciated.

Peter

[ChojinDSL]

Just a small tip, if your tired of constantly running into abbreviations and dont know what they mean, like WTF, IMHO, YMMV

Then there is a nifty little command line tool called "wtf"

Just do