Does Gentoo Linux need an install program?

neilhwatson · l33t Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Posts: 719 Location: Canada

This attitude in the thread of "I can install Gentoo fine so an install program is not needed" will not encourage new comers or individuals with limited time resources.

Yes, Gentoo can and usually is a complex install. Linux is about choice. If you don't like a complex install you can choice to install another distribution. However, do you really want to turn users away from Gentoo in the name of choice?
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Hauser · Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2004 11:45 pm Post subject:

ricy · n00b Joined: 09 May 2003 Posts: 18 Location: Austria

yes!!!!!!!
i had several problems to install gentoo.
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foulsoul · n00b Joined: 17 Jan 2004 Posts: 13

I have never done any programming for linux, but from what I understand it should'nt be too hard to slap together a simple ncurses installer?

stonent · Veteran Joined: 07 Aug 2003 Posts: 1139 Location: Texas

One could even make it Knoppix like where it boots into a gui and runs a pygtk based utility. Then you can web surf in the background while it is bootstrapping.
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neilhwatson · l33t Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Posts: 719 Location: Canada

stonent · Veteran Joined: 07 Aug 2003 Posts: 1139 Location: Texas

Well it works that way in Solaris, if you do the X based install, you can launch netscape and surf. Running live off the CD.
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broschi · Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 1:10 am Post subject:

den_RDC · Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 5:27 am Post subject:

Like somebody said in this thread, installing gentoo in the cli is nice, but it get's damn boring on the 25-30th time you install gentoo (no, i don't fubar my install's, i just happen to install it on any box i get my hands on). It would be handy to have an installer that takes a config file in wich you specify how you want gentoo installed. Lazy admin is the keyword

If someone want's to make a more userfriendly or "guided" installer, why not? I won't use it, but i can't claim that people "need" to go to a manual setup process in order to have "the right" to use gentoo. I do think it's a good learning experience, but i won't force my opinion on others. More options is better - it's what linux is about

jmazzi · n00b Joined: 06 Oct 2003 Posts: 19

F16PilotJumper · Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 3:03 pm Post subject:

More options are better, but Gentoo installed with a CLI is the first time I've felt like I actually had some idea what was going on in my Linux system.

I tried Mandrake v7, v8, and v9 for a couple months each, and none was really good enough to take me away from Windows completely. After the pretty graphical install, things got difficult, because I would have no idea where to go from here. One day I got adventerous and decided to do a Stage 1 Gentoo install. I read the install guide fully a couple times over in advance, and then dug right in.

Worked on the first try

, and I havn't broken it yet. KDE3.2 even compiled and worked flawlessly over my 3.1.5 the other day.

I'm still dual-booting w/XP Pro to do some PowerPoint work for school (OO is nice, but I need these presentations to look tops) and to play games, but I'm really making an effort to switch over. I swear, I'll never own a PC with Longhorn - by the time it comes out, I'll be 100% Linux.

I havn't really posted much here, because the answers to all my n00b questions were in previous posts and I used that handy 'Search' feature, but overall the forums and community seem very helpful.

I think that any installation tool for Gentoo needs to preserve the introduction to the command line that the current process provides. Maybe a simple X GUI that displays a nicer looking terminal with the install doc alongside it? Heck, toss in an IRC client for install help if they need it.. But don't insulate people from emerge and editing config files. If they are going to be sucessful with Gentoo, they need to be comfterable doing that from the start.

a23d56 · Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 12:10 pm Post subject:

Gentoo already has my favorite install program:

Topis · n00b Joined: 10 Jan 2004 Posts: 16 Location: Finland

I can't see how a newbie friendly installer could make Gentoo worse, so I'm voting yes.

xg0blin · Tux's lil' helper Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 106

It doesn't need an installer. The first time I installed it, it took like two days. The second time, it was eight hours from the get go to starting up kde. Every gentoo user should have to go through the install at least once (the second time it's nothing).

slon · n00b Joined: 31 Jul 2003 Posts: 45 Location: NorthWest

I love people like xg0blin. He knows what's better for me. Isn't it nice?

kranki2 · n00b Joined: 25 Feb 2004 Posts: 21 Location: FL Keys, USA

I just completed 4 installs. For several years, I have been developing a flat file system to maintain my re-installation for all my machines whether Linux, MacOSX or Windows. Also, I document the process in html files for each machine. (Yes, I believe at some point you will need to do a complete re-installation for a multitude of reasons and I hate not being able to remember how I installed this or that feature. (I am older so the memory isn't so good anymore.))

It is nice that Gentoo Stage1 is available. My first install was a real learning experience as was stated many times here. Since then (and actually starting with that one), I do all my installs using Stage1, but they are scripted. Typing in all those commands (and screwing them up) is just boredom/headache. Also, for me, I now have a set of things that I want in a base system. So, the scripting works well for me and helps me remember what I initially needed.

When I am done, I will have Gentoo installed on at least 8 smp machines. I am a Folding@Home farmer. So, I want scripted installs, but I want them where I can change this or that. I was happy with RedHat 9, but my system did not run as well since I did not have some of the knowledge that I have now. However, starting with RedHat 9 allowed me to learn over a period of time. There is just so much to learn that initially it is overwhelming or seems that way.

My vote is for a Stage4 that is easy to install without hassles and an optional script(s) for stage1. I think that there is something to be said for having several approaches.

That said, be aware that I am old compared to most of you and set in my ways. So, take this all with a grain of salt. I am not any more right than any of the rest of you. This is what works for me.

I would be be willing to share mine (although it is very rudimentary) or help create a scripting system for Stage1. I used mostly Bash with a little Python mixed in. However, the LiveCD seems to only have Perl and Bash available until you have chroot'd and emerged the system. Feel free to correct me where I am wrong. I am still very new to Gentoo.

redfox · Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 11:08 pm Post subject:

I go either way. We should have an installer, (most)every other distro has one. This would make it easier for admins to install and possibly give us leeway against windows. Plus, it might make it quicker and easier to install, sometimes giving multiple choice questions is better than fill in the blank. It was a bit of a challenge to install Gentoo for me, but i really didn't have a problem, since it had been almost a year since I fooled with linux(my old machine had it, since windows wouldn't run on it and red hat did, then I got my new machine, ran windows for about 1/2 a year and on went Gentoo). I've been using Linux for about 3-4 years and love it.

The disadvantage is, if you are installing Gentoo you most likely have been using Linux before. Gentoo is not that Linux n00b oriented. It takes time and patience to work with it, but it is most definitely worth, probably the best for servers, works really good for desktops. The install process is worth it, a bit complicated, maybe, but an installer might make it move faster in the install process. I'm now sure, it would just be cool to see that we had one like everyone else(which we don't have to be like).

Talornin · n00b Joined: 09 Mar 2004 Posts: 33 Location: Norway

Maybe an installer would be good, maybe not.
I can see how the Gentoo installation can seem intimidating on a newbie, but I came to gentoo from 6 years of windows and one week of RH, and I managed to install it.
Now I love the install process. It gives absolute freedom! So I would never even consider to use a RH-like installer for Gentoo.

I tell my friends who wants to try Getnoo that, sure! Try! But be warned, the only thing the Gentoo installation process has in common with other installation processes is that it actualy installs something.
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gohylse · n00b Joined: 15 May 2003 Posts: 23

I used to think that it would be great to have a gui-based installer. However, after trying to automate my install with shell scripts, I didn't really feel the need to have gui-based installer... at least when the install is specific to only my computer.

It would be great for a gui-based installer to meet the newbies' needs until they are proficient at say, shell scripting(?). I have friends who love the looks of the DEs in linux but are pretty much turned off due to the complexity of even setting up a linux box.

I'm also contemplating on making a gui-based installer for Gentoo. If anyone is interested, or already has an ongoing project but need some help, give me a private message.

nowak07 · n00b Joined: 24 Jan 2004 Posts: 37

Maybe one of the things that make Gentoo unique is the lack of a GUI install process. For geeks it's possible that installing Gentoo is 'one of those things' but for some people like me, having a working Gentoo is an 'achievement' in itself :-)

I've tried RH (from 3.x to Fedora 1, I think) and at some point tested Mandrake but I've never felt so at ease until I came across Gentoo in January this year and there's no going back !!!

One thing I like about Open Source is choice. M$ Windows has a GUI install process, other OSes have, why can't I have one without a GUI?

A 'click-n-go' install process for Gentoo isn't a good idea, IMHO.

XiuX · n00b Joined: 22 Jan 2004 Posts: 59 Location: Linux

nah
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andy007 · Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 6:56 am Post subject:

samx · n00b Joined: 02 Apr 2004 Posts: 12 Location: Germany

I think at least it should be mentioned that there is an installation guide and that it is useful to have it printed lying next to you...
My first try of Gentoo wasn't very great (yes, I'm new to Linux...):
I booted the LiveCD (great, yeah), and after that, there was an

R!tman · Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 10:18 am Post subject:

The learning factor is a lot bigger, if no installer is used. But new gentoo users or guys who want to switch from windows might have problems with it.

Imaging one of your parents installing gentoo! Would he/she succeed? Probably not. My mother would DEFINATELY not

.

So, I cannot really decide what would be better.

squareeys · n00b Joined: 16 May 2004 Posts: 2

That is the sound of my Gentoo CD going through the shredder.

Everytime I buy a new car yes I have to read the manual but no I do not need to learn to drive again.

I'm used to real Unix so I look to Linux for a little ease of use/config, Debian anyone?