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Nazgulled
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:32 pm    Post subject: [SOLVED] Acronis Disk Director and OS Selector Reply with quote

As I have this application, I intend to use it, but I have some questions about it.

1) While doing some searching on this forum I read that if I had some unallocated space, I should leave it like that and use fdisk to create my linux partitions. But why? Why can't I create them with Acronis Disk Director? I don't happen to ahve any unallocated space, but, do you think I should create some unallocated space width Acronis Disk Director and then use fdisk to create my partitions or I can freely and manually create the partitions with Acronis Disk Director? I would prefer using acronis, but if there's some kind of problem with that I would like to be aware.

I also use Acronis OS Selector, I find it to be very good, I once had mandrake installed with Os selector and I liked it very much, it worked jsut the way I wanted and it has a nice interface. However, I don't use mandrke (nor any other distro) for some time now and I didn't have OS Selector installed yet but at the time of writing this, it's installed and I would like to use it.

So my questions about this are:

2) Can I skip step 10 on the gentoo 2005.0 handbook? (I mean, this one: http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/2005.0/handbook-x86.xml?part=1&chap=10)

3) I didn't quite understood what is the /boot partition for. Do I still need it using OS Selector or I don't need to create a boot partition? My instint tells me that I still need it, but I just want to make sure.


Last edited by Nazgulled on Tue Aug 30, 2005 12:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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adaptr
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 9:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Acronis Disk Director and OS Selector Reply with quote

Nazgulled wrote:
1) While doing some searching on this forum I read that if I had some unallocated space, I should leave it like that and use fdisk to create my linux partitions. But why?

Because.
Seriously - the long answer is, indeed, very long.

Nazgulled wrote:
Why can't I create them with Acronis Disk Director?

If it says it can then I'm sure you can - but nobody will recommend it, and most likely not support it, either.
Your call.

Nazgulled wrote:
I don't happen to ahve any unallocated space, but, do you think I should create some unallocated space width Acronis Disk Director and then use fdisk to create my partitions or I can freely and manually create the partitions with Acronis Disk Director? I would prefer using acronis, but if there's some kind of problem with that I would like to be aware.

Same as above - use Linux tools to create Linux partitions.
Linux happy, we happy - eventually you happy too.

Nazgulled wrote:
I also use Acronis OS Selector, I find it to be very good, I once had mandrake installed with Os selector and I liked it very much, it worked jsut the way I wanted and it has a nice interface. However, I don't use mandrke (nor any other distro) for some time now and I didn't have OS Selector installed yet but at the time of writing this, it's installed and I would like to use it.

So my questions about this are:

2) Can I skip step 10 on the gentoo 2005.0 handbook? (I mean, this one: http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/2005.0/handbook-x86.xml?part=1&chap=10)

No, you can't.
Only a Linux bootloader can load Linux.
It is possible that the Acronis thingy allows you to boot from a partition boot record - in which case you still need to install the boot loader there.

Nazgulled wrote:
3) I didn't quite understood what is the /boot partition for.

To boot your kernel and provide it with a starting point to load the rest of the OS.
Or, more literally, to separate the essential boot files from the running OS; the boot partition does not need to be mounted in regular use, so there is no chance of accidentally messing it up, either.

Nazgulled wrote:
Do I still need it using OS Selector or I don't need to create a boot partition? My instint tells me that I still need it, but I just want to make sure.

You always need a boot directory - whether you use a boot partition to place that on is entirely up to you.
Consensus has it that it is mildly beneficial, so your best bet is to just follow the Handbook.
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Nazgulled
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 12:55 am    Post subject: Re: Acronis Disk Director and OS Selector Reply with quote

adaptr wrote:
No, you can't.
Only a Linux bootloader can load Linux.


that's not entirely true... I had madnrake installed and never installed any linux bootloader and I was able to boot to linux using OS Selector...

anywa, thanks for all your answers. I just don't get why I can't use acronis software to take care of my disk partitions and I am obligated to use fdisk. That makes no sense, acronis disk director was made to configure the disk partitions, so I don't get it...
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adaptr
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you manually instruct Mandrake not to install a bootloader ?
If not, then yes you did have one.

As for the rest: as I explained above, you don't need to use fdisk - nobody is forcing you.

But Acronis is a DOS/Windows program - not a Unix/Linux one.
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Nazgulled
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

adaptr wrote:
Did you manually instruct Mandrake not to install a bootloader ?
If not, then yes you did have one.

yes, I guess... when installing mandrake, in the psge about the bootloader I simply "said no" to everything about it, as I didn't want to install any linux bootloader, no changes to the mbr were made nor mandrake installation changed anything about the bootloader. Then, I went to Os Selectro and added the new linux found system and it worked perfectly...

adaptr wrote:
As for the rest: as I explained above, you don't need to use fdisk - nobody is forcing you.

But Acronis is a DOS/Windows program - not a Unix/Linux one.


So what? That's what I don't get... of course it's a windows program, it was coded to run on windows not on linux... but it is able to manage any kinds of partitions, create theme, resize them, etc... so I don't get why I "shouldn't" use it..
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adaptr
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nazgulled wrote:
adaptr wrote:
Did you manually instruct Mandrake not to install a bootloader ?
If not, then yes you did have one.

yes, I guess... when isntalalting mandrake, in the apge about the bootloader I simply "said no" to everything about it, as I didn't want to install any linux bootloader, no changes to mbr were made nor mandrake isntallation changed anything about the bootloader. Then, I went to Os Selectro and added the new linux foudn system and it worked eprfectly...

Yes.. and you did know that an OS loader consists of at least two parts, only the first of which is embedded in the MBR ?
The Acronis program most definitely uses (part of) a Linux bootloader to load Mandrake - there is no other way to load it.

Nazgulled wrote:
adaptr wrote:
As for the rest: as I explained above, you don't need to use fdisk - nobody is forcing you.

But Acronis is a DOS/Windows program - not a Unix/Linux one.

So what? That's what I don't get... of course it's a windows program, it was coded to run on windows not on linux... but it is able to manage any kinds of partitions, create theme, resize them, etc... so I don't get why I "shouldn't" use it..

Nobody has said that you "should not" use it - my explanation was concise and exact.
You will have a much better chance of helpful support and run far fewer risks of problems if you use Linux tools to create Linux partitions.
I personally recommend cfdisk as a superior alternative to fdisk.
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Nazgulled
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know the technical stuff about acronis, but it sure did load mandrake... All I want to know is if I could skip step 10 cuz that step is to install lilo or grub, but since I do have an alternative to load gentoo, I don't really need lilo or grub, so I can simply skip them... That's what I think but I just need to know I'm not making something I shouldn't...
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then use your Acronis program to boot and find out, no ?
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

that's what I will do :)
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually you dont need /boot directory . You just need a kernel anywhere where grub/lilo/syslinux can read it. It's just some unix conventions about having /boot and to have it on separate partition. The great thing about linux is that you can customize it in any way you like so you can boot for example from usb drive whith syslinux bootloader using kernel on the same drive and just point it to the correct root. You can even start something else instead of /sbin/init and the system will still work. I still use boot directory cause if you compile kernel with "make install" new kernel will automatically be copied to /boot/vmlinuz and the old one will be backed up. Still i keep one safe kernel on my usb stick just in case.
[edit]
Try to switch to grub/lilo cause noone uses that acronis thingie except windows-switchers and most expirienced users (who can help you) use grub/lilo because it is the right tool for the job - "to boot your os".
[/edit]
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Nazgulled
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

grub/lilo sucks, os selector has a nice interface and I like to use it. what do I care if noone uses the acronis os selector? just because noone uses it, it doesn't mean I should'nt use it... I'm using it, and it's working fine.
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revertex
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
But Acronis is a DOS/Windows program - not a Unix/Linux one.


Quote:
So what? That's what I don't get... of course it's a windows program, it was coded to run on windows not on linux... but it is able to manage any kinds of partitions, create theme, resize them, etc... so I don't get why I "shouldn't" use it..


All acronis live cds are linux based.
Some acronis products run under linux, like trueimage server, i don't know acronis director, but acronis partition expert can manage/create and format linux partition flawlessly, the best tool i even saw, pretty safe, stable and easy to use, a rare example of closed source app that should be used as inspiration to open source developers, maybe some day qtparted can reach this level.
As a hardcore linux user i prefer fdisk, but some friends of mine feel very confortable with acronis tools.
Most part of acronis products are pretty safe and easy to use to manage linux partitions, the only conterpart is that cost money.
No, i'm not affiliated to acronis in any form, just have a very positive experience with their products.

Quote:
grub/lilo sucks, os selector has a nice interface and I like to use it. what do I care if noone uses the acronis os selector? just because noone uses it, it doesn't mean I should'nt use it... I'm using it, and it's working fine.


Don't be so rude, grub is amazing, just because os selector is easy to use you can't say grub/lilo sucks.
Remember, both work's fine doing it's job, os selector cost some money to use, grub cost some knowledge to use.
who knows how much grub source code was inside os selector?

I can't see any point to do not use os selector, go for it, the acronis docs are great.

Isn't linux about choice?
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