Recomendations and or warnings for installing Gentoo LAMPP

meaty-btz · n00b Joined: 23 Oct 2005 Posts: 16

I have a dell Poweredge 4400 server and after wrestling with "desktop" distros of linux i decided that i wanted to take a different route and go customized and thus gentoo. I have never succesfully installed Gentoo. All attempts to install it on my desktop failed gnerally due to some error in grub that was literally unsolvable ( it effected other linuxes too on my box) However i have worked with Gentoo on another system and liked it alot. So i was wondering if anyone had any warnings or recomendations ahead of time for my install process. The Dell Poweredge 4400 is configured with 1 GB ram 2 P3 Xeon 733 processors and a SCSI Raid 0 array with 4 hot-swaping disks in the array ATM, i plan to add more as i find more drive caddies ( which seems to be a challange, drives i have but they dont sell the caddies seperately and dell wants 385 bucks for one with an, albeit nice but uneccisary, included scsi drive). It has 128MB of dedicated ram SDRAM for the RAID array which is seperate from main memeory.. damn i love the power edge. I have had issues with linux installs in the past due to the raid array and wonder about any suggestions or if gentoo is smart enough to avoid that problem that other distros turned into a nightmare. This server will ( while not totally security wise, its how i want to do it) Control the DSL modem ( which is a PPPoE 4100 Speedstream, the server must control PPPoE or the modem will block HTTP access by thinking you are trying to remotly log onto the modem itself.. thank you SBC for a crippled modem), it will also serve standard LAMPP duties + FTP + Samaba ( for printer sharing on my local net and for allowances to Net Rendering duties when i want it too which need network file shares) I will NOT be doing SSH duties. The server has its own head and there is no need for remote maint. or log-in on my part except for FTP duties which it can handle quite well w/o SSH.

Thanks

scoon · Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 12:13 am Post subject:

Hey there,

My advice to you is to install slowly. Print out the manual and check off the steps that you do as you do them. Since you have a list of "features" you want. Start with one feature and get it completely configured. Then move to the next. Don't let frustration get the best of you!!!

gentoo is a great distro, but it is difficult to set up.

regards,
scoon
_________________
Hope this helps........

meaty-btz · n00b Joined: 23 Oct 2005 Posts: 16

Thanks,
how does Gentoo Support PPPoE control? That is if i have a NIC that is the external interface that runs into the modem.. most distros i have used use a KDE app for the control.. which.. kinda sucks. I would prefer to go X-less but Xwould not put an undue load on the server as its duties will be lightweight by comparison to the server i run were i work.. after all ADSLs low upstream data rates prevent any real meaningfull server use on the heavy scale. Sheesh, they act like 386Kbps is enough ( which works out to a real world of about 40-60KBps. yes big B not little b).

scoon · Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:49 am Post subject:

meaty-btz · n00b Joined: 23 Oct 2005 Posts: 16

install goes well, finnish installing grub and then reboot, i get root block device unspecified or not detected. i am 98% certain this has something to do with the fact that i am using BIOS controled RAID 0 on my dell poweredge4400. It gives linux a fit.

grub.conf:
default 0
timeout 10
splashimage=(hd0,0)/grub/splash.xpm.gz
title=Gentoo Linux 2.6.13-r3
root (hd0,0)
kernel /kerenel-genkernel-x86-2.6-11-gentoo-r3 root=/dev/sda3 doscsi udev
initrd /initramfs-genkernel-x86-2.6.13-gentoo-r3

i dunno, i decided genkernel this time through because i am still uncertain about specific drivers for my devices.. i dont have them memorized yet. Anythoughts on getting it to see the Raid array?

scoon · Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:36 pm Post subject: Re: ok, looks like try #1 failed

meaty-btz · n00b Joined: 23 Oct 2005 Posts: 16

ok, recompiled kernel, added everything that i could find that was different between the live CD and my install. I even found a few threads on this burried deep within the forum. After enabling scsi in the kernel in all the small special ways.. it still comes back up with
Block device /dev/sda3 is not a valid root device.

It is now detecting the scsi cards, i can see it on the boot. The mega-raid and aacraid are both loading... ok, i am stumped
I knew this would be the problem. .. .. .. its always the problem, under every linux i have ever installed fails under SCSI raid. Suggestions?

meaty-btz · n00b Joined: 23 Oct 2005 Posts: 16

it would seem that once more Gentoo thwarts me. I can find no solution to this niggling issue, neither recompiling kernel with every scsi option i can think of or passing parameters on boot. It would seem that i am no thte only one using scsi RAID nor on a dell poweredge.. hmm soultions though seem few and far between.

scoon · Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:56 am Post subject:

Hey there,

I don't think it is just gentoo. It sounds to be any/all linux. Have you tried knoppix to check your modules ? Also, what does your fstab line for this drive look like ?

regards,
scoon
_________________
Hope this helps........

meaty-btz · n00b Joined: 23 Oct 2005 Posts: 16

for the root or the boot partition...
fstab typed because i cant copy and past it.. heh..
/boot line:
/dev/sda1 /boot reiserfs noatime,notail,noauto
/ ( or root) line:
/dev/sda3 / reiserfs noatime,notail,auto,user

during install that is how the system viewed the scsi raid array, as /dev/sda so that is how i set it up.
It would seem that making things compatable to modern dells have broken support for the older dells. Though out of desperation i am going to try and use Fedora because dell seems to support redhat, but i will never spend money on redhat enterprise.. here is to hoping SOMETHING supports the older systems. BTW the hack for SUSE was i had to manual load the drivers on boot or it would not run the installer and they had to be loaded in a specific order.. first the aacraid THEN the adaptech driver.. dont know why, however once this was done after install it worked just fine.. I still would prefer to use gentoo, i want to be able to strip down the kernel for speed but right now i am just hitting a wall. Debian also fails. No parameters will get it to load the drivers needed to access the scsi raid array. Further research shows no recent commentary directed at the 4400 series dells, which is understandable as they are 6 years old now. However 2300 and other series have had recent commentary directed at recent linuxes breaking the SCSI support and that all kinds of hacks and work-arounds are required. I would hope that isnt the case here, i am hoping that it is something that i am doing WRONG so that it can be fixed. Man, ever had the feeling you were beating your head against a wall.

scoon · Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:01 pm Post subject:

meaty-btz · n00b Joined: 23 Oct 2005 Posts: 16

i could have sworn i had it compiled in rather than as a module. I remember that line in the manual. You wouldnt know under which menu that option lurks in the kernel compile config menu? Just want to make sure i was catching all the pieces.. i found that there were some lurking scsi options in unexpected locations that i had to include when i was getting the scsi up and running ( which does appear to be on boot time). I use reiser because of speed and journaling ( an option that i have come to love ).

scoon · Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:11 pm Post subject:

meaty-btz · n00b Joined: 23 Oct 2005 Posts: 16

my thanks, that ought to do it. Give me the information i need, i mean. yes, driver verbage a result of day to day life spent administering w2k3 servers. At home i run linux, at work i run w2k3server, my verbage gets crossed sometimes. I would probably choose 2k3 server at home too except that the thought of running a 2k3 server as a DMZ scares the crap outa me and let us not forget the $$$$$ associated with 2k3server licencing. Even at work i run a linux box as my DMZ and router because like hell we will expose our network to the risks of running 2k3 server open like that.

meaty-btz · n00b Joined: 23 Oct 2005 Posts: 16

ok, back at home now from work, recompiling, i ensured that the reiserFS is compiled into the kernel rather than as a module.. also ensured all known SCSI items that were known to be part of my harware were installed. BTW from live cd did a lspci and lsmod to get a feel for what had loaded after i had mounted my reiserFS drives.. everything appeared to be in order... compaired to what my compiled kernel was attempting.. so after this recompile it will either be the end of the road or it will work.. unless we can get some more options on board.

scoon · Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:01 pm Post subject:

Hey there,

Earlier you mentioned that you were considering Fedora. I run that at work and run gentoo @ home. My guess is that if this didn't work for gentoo, it won't work for fedora either. All tho, I'd be curious if you do run fedora and it works, what worked.

regards,
scoon
_________________
Hope this helps........

meaty-btz · n00b Joined: 23 Oct 2005 Posts: 16

np, downloading fedora right now.. it has taken me over 2 days to even get 1 fedora ISO, i keep getting knocked off servers while DLing. just finnished recompiling my gentoo kernel.. and the envelope please.... we have a winner, i tweaked the SCSI settings this last time through kicked off some stuff and added a few more SCSI modules i suspected in.. the results after a doscsi was the damn mega-raid driver finnnaly came online. I actually had to dig to find the raid stuff, once i was in there i tweaked a few settings that i felt would help, one thing being verbose and alsof forced LUN scanning were added. I am stoked now. I also removed a ton of modules i knew i wouldnt need. Something might have been interfering.. for example i turned off all support for SATA RAID. I wish i could document what i did for other people but it was so.. play it by ear with alot of guessing. I also turned off sound support as well DELL poweredge servers do not have sound cards.. why would i need a soundcard in a server.. I also turned off all IDE support because the 4400 has NO IDE interfaces, so again did a little streamlining last compile through.

now, were to go from here, I now have the base install completed.. As i want this to be a LAMPP setup i guess i now need to lookinto apache, my guess would be emerege apache, but before i do that. it is critical for me to install a firewall setup into the system such that i have to open each port i want on the external interface. Suggestions? I will forum trawl to see if i can come up with data.

scoon · Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:34 pm Post subject:

Hey there,

Great news. So are you gonna keep gentoo or are you getting fedora for another box. Linux uses the kernel for firewall details. I use firestarter to write my iptable rules for me. Firestarter makes things really easy for my home workstation. You may want to look at shorewall.

regards,
scoon
_________________
Hope this helps........

meaty-btz · n00b Joined: 23 Oct 2005 Posts: 16

i dont know, part of my reasoning for choosing gentoo is to increse my linux fundemental understanding. That and the abillity to be highly package selective to the point that i know exactly what every file on my system does or is doing. I am going to try Fedora just for kicks, now that I know how to get gentoo to work on my system a reinstall would be a snap. I prefer to shop about for what works the best for me. Perhaps what scares me is my abillity to screw up security on Gentoo. I am a little foggy on linux security.. and am reading into the Gentoo Security handbook. My final decision has yet to be made, i think.

scoon · Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 1:12 am Post subject:

Hey there,

My workstation is fedora core4 @ work. I chose that becuase our servers run rhel3. But for a server you would prolly want to run 3 or wait for 5. With redhat, odd releases are stable and even are testing. They number opposite the kernel.

good luck,
scoon
_________________
Hope this helps........

meaty-btz · n00b Joined: 23 Oct 2005 Posts: 16

it would seem 4 goes in just fine, it even handles the mega-raid and adaptec modues with pizaz, my only fault with fedora is it does not offer reiser FS as a file system on install. ext3 is out-dated and out-moded. Plus it seems to be suffering from the x-org monitor resolution issue that is haunting the linux community atm. That is it does not allow w/o great tweaking the monitor to run at its maximum resolution. It is staggering to me that a problem of this scale has not been solved. Having to hack xorg and the kernel to get over the one step below max res issue is mindboggling to have been released through not only free distros like fedora but also comercial distros like SUSE Prof. It is a gross oversight that shames the linux community with how rampant the problem is. However i can live at 800x600 res, still and even run w/o X ( which is better for a server) but i installed X just to check the x-org issue was indeed also present on fedora.

scoon · Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 10:15 am Post subject:

Hey there,

Here are some tidbits about the fedora installer.

meaty-btz · n00b Joined: 23 Oct 2005 Posts: 16

hmm, with ext3 i have always had corruption issues if the drive doesnt unmount cleanly. that is to say.. if the power to to go out and my UPS ran outa juice before i could shut the server down i have always run into system corruption that inevitably leads to a reinstall. With reiserFS i have gained both speed and a safetynet should the system unexpectadly loose power. Just to stress reiserFS system i have purpously removed power from the system while it was in operation. Out of 20 times doing this the drive replayed the transactions and the damn thing came back up grinning and shining like nothing had happened. that sold me on resierFS. Now i have never tried reiser4 and have heard that reiser4 is very unstable so i wont touch it with a 10ft stick. I have to agree with you on one thing though. Fedora is FAST. Surprisingly so. The kernel load times are quick. But not much quicker than my custom compiled Genkernel.
Though Fedora has one other thing going for it... install times. in a production enviroment ( like your work) the abillity to go from zero to functioning server is critical. For me win2k3server w/o patches i can go from zero to running server in about 25 min. Fedora w/o patching is also about 45min to get to a configured and functioning server but the install time for fedora is marginally slower than win2k3 fedora looses on the lack of configuration front-ends to bring up the servers components and that costs time when dealing with command line configuration of sometimes arcane config files. But for linux in a production enviroment Fedora has Gentoo beat hands down, zero to functioing server on gentoo can be in excess of 8 hours. And as a followup question is there configuration front-ends available for use in either X or FrameBuffered Shell for gentoo or fedora? Getting some front ends in there would really speedup deployment on either. Just to note, nothing wrong with doing it the nano + configfile way ( or vi) but that method is not the fastest especially when dealing with large config files with many options and or when you are not 100% familiar with the options, like i am.

and as a note functioing server= installing OS, configuring networking on at least 2 nics + some sort of routing configuration, configuring a DNS and DHCP, configuring baseling network file shares, bringing up the HTTP server and mail server.

scoon · Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:12 pm Post subject:

Hey there,

I agree with your thoughts with gentoo in production. I like it for home, but fedora/rhel is what I use @ work.

regards,
scoon
_________________
Hope this helps........

meaty-btz · n00b Joined: 23 Oct 2005 Posts: 16

scoon, i appreciate your help on this. I am going to see if i can get Gentoo to be my home Server. The documentation on setting up gentoo routers and servers is pretty good. Fedora seems to be lacking in that department. I just wish setup on gentoo was a bit faster. Still hunting for front ends that will improve the server experience, good things like network traffic graphs, log file monitoring and popup warnrings of issues as they are logged, i found a decent apache front end, firewall front ends are 90% terrible. My understanding of IPTABLES sucks. now a good front end for SAMBA config and maint would be cool too.