What exactly happened to stage 1? And bootstrapping?

dmbtech · n00b Joined: 06 Jan 2004 Posts: 44

I havn't been here in a while, and i can't really find the threads which tell me what happened. What happened to the normal stage 1 tarball that we'd bootstrap? The guide says it isn't supported anymore. Can we still bootstrap? Is there a way i can boostrap and have it build gcc 3.4.x? I prefer to start from stage one, and not have a completely built system already, and i personally find it kind of stupid if they got rid of it.

anello · Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:51 pm Post subject:

http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/index.xml#doc_chap4

warrens · Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 10:10 pm Post subject:

This bites the big one!! Why drop support for stage 1?? A stage 1 install is still the best way to get Gentoo installed exactly how I want it.

dmbtech · n00b Joined: 06 Jan 2004 Posts: 44

As much as I love gentoo, if they did drop stage 1 support and bootstrapping, i believe there is a need to fork gentoo. The original intention was so that is was custimizable, optimizable and more, which we can't do with starting with a stage 3 tarball.

AlecTavi · Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 3:09 am Post subject:

Just to make it clear, it is still possible to do stage 1 installs. The extra instructions are in the Gentoo FAQ, with the link to it above. The stage 1/2 support that is dropped is documentation. I don't know why it was dropped, as these instructions were the simplest in the installation. I too believe that this goes against the "user's choice" philosophy of Gentoo. Still, we can still do our stage ones. I am doing a custom GCC 3.4.4 stage one install as I write this.

dmbtech · n00b Joined: 06 Jan 2004 Posts: 44

But the way it sounds, it looks like for now they have it, but eventually they'll get rid of it, i believe there deprecating it. If they do get rid of it, it destros the're choice philosophy.

warrens · Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 3:34 am Post subject:

As I write this I am doing a Stage 1 install on my server, but having to jump out of the Gentoo Handbook and look for the Stage 1 instructions in the FAQ was not something I like to do. I will not do a Stage 3 install again after having to failed attempts in the last year. I have had less problems and a better setup after I was done using Stage 1. I do not want somebodyelse deciding how my base system is installed, if I wanted that I would be still using Mandriva. I have a partition on by second hdd in my main computer that I play with the other distros, but there is not a single one out there that can hold a candle to my Stage 1 builds in regards to speed and stability. Put Stage 1 and Stage 2 support back into the Handbook, please!!!!

Avuton Olrich · Tux's lil' helper Joined: 02 Jul 2004 Posts: 114

Honestly I think depreciating support for stage 1/2 is pretty smart. It's actually much smarter just to start at a stage3 (assuming you're not making a embedded distro) that way you have an 'up and running' system, then just emerge -e world. Did I miss something?

:twisted:

avuton

hielvc · Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:21 am Post subject:

See this sticky thread Sticky: "you need Perl 5" error [SOLVED] as to why I think Gentoo migrated to a stage 3 insrtall. It also could simjply be that it was easier to document just one approch that had become popular and more reliable during the first 6 months of 2005.
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syg00 · Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:38 am Post subject: Re: Who needs stage1?

dnmnz · Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:19 am Post subject: handbook

I just wondered... does anyone have a spare old 2005.1 handbook which describes the stage 1/2 installation? I'd really like to have it, need it for study purposes etc.

Hope someone can help!
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rainer · Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:11 am Post subject:

I did a few Stage 1/2 installs and they have all produced lovely, fast, reliable machines. Fortunately I have printouts of the handbook, but I noticed already that stage 1 tarballs are disappearing.
What matters most - can we still set USE flags before installing? Can we still custom-build the kernel? bootstrapping or not, in my view, doesn't make the difference, but these items do.

LubosD · Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:16 am Post subject:

This sucks! WHO has done this nonsense?

Please return at least stage2...

rainer · Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:24 am Post subject:

I would have guessed that this is what I'm saying.
I love Gentoo, although it takes TTIIMMEE to install - but the result is worth it.
Stage 3 only, and I'd better stay with SuSE...

garskoci · Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 1:01 pm Post subject:

So glad that I found this thread..... I'm right in the middle of a build. I have completed stage 1 and am towards the end of stage 2. I had to shut down the machine that I was using to view the installation instructions. When I came back, I couldn't find the stage 2 instructions! I thought that I was going crazy..... Bad timing , I guess. But it's unfortunate that it will no longer be supported.

Bob P · Advocate Joined: 20 Oct 2004 Posts: 3374 Location: USA

you know, I think that the recommendation to have people install from Stage 3 tarballs is actually a GOOD idea. there's a HUGE misconception among less-experienced users about what a Stage 1 install actually does for you.

yes, a Stage 1 install is necessary if you're planning on bootstrapping for an architecture for which no Stage 3 tarball is available. but if a suitable architecture-specific Stage 3 tarball *IS* available for your system, there's no logical reason to perform a Stage 1 install. and as far as a Stage 2 install goes, there's never been a compelling argument for performing them.

if you search the forums, you'll find PLENTY of threads where this topic has already been discussed in detail by developers and seasoned Gentoo experts. both sides of the argument have been discussed in detail, and there's lots of good information in them that explains the logic behind the current official recommendations.

i have to admit, i'm kind of surprised to read this post and see that installing from a Stage 3 tarball has become an official recommendation, to the exclusion of supporting Stage 1 and 2. although that's been my opinion for quite some time (I agree with the original idea put forth by @rac on this), i had never imagined that Gentoo would make this a de-facto standard. when did this happen???

IMHO if Gentoo is going to take that stance, then it would be a good idea to provide suitable Stage 3 tarballs for all of the supported arches. right now, Gentoo offers Stage 3 tarballs for x86, i686, P3, P4 and XP, but no Stage 3 tarballs are offered for 486, Pentium, Pentium-MMX, Pentium2 or Pentium-M. If the Stage 1 install goes by the wayside, maybe it would be a good idea to add a few arch-specific Stage 3 tarballs to the mirrors to fill-in the gaps.

just a thoguht...

Bob P · Advocate Joined: 20 Oct 2004 Posts: 3374 Location: USA

Earthwings · Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:42 pm Post subject:

Moved from Installing Gentoo to Gentoo Chat. Here's the discussion on the gentoo-doc mailinglist.
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hielvc · Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:42 pm Post subject:

Heres the link for stage1 & 2 installs How do I Install Gentoo Using a Stage1 or Stage2 Tarball? Its at the bottom of 2.b in the gentoo handbook.
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AlecTavi · Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 5:27 pm Post subject:

hielvc · Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 5:40 pm Post subject:

Well that was an interesting thread. Me likes Mike Bonar. maguire!!!!!

Chris Gianelloni bah humbug :evil:

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Bob P · Advocate Joined: 20 Oct 2004 Posts: 3374 Location: USA

Bob P · Advocate Joined: 20 Oct 2004 Posts: 3374 Location: USA

Cinder6 · l33t Joined: 05 Aug 2004 Posts: 767 Location: California

I don't think anyone has mentioned this.

If you want to have a Stage 1 install, why not do a 3->1 install? There are tutorials on it in the Gentoo Wiki and on these forums. IMO, 3->1 is better than pure stage 1, but it takes longer.
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Riftwing · Apprentice Joined: 06 Oct 2002 Posts: 293

Like Bob_P said, there's really no point in doing a stage1 install unless a stage3 tarball does not exist for your system. Stage2, on the other hand, was always useless. I really don't understand what the fuss is about; it's much better this way.
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