KDE3 vs Fluxbox (Rational =P)

Maldrim · n00b Joined: 30 May 2002 Posts: 30

These two seems to be the mainstream for gentoo users but i was wondering where both of these WM/DE shine and where they fail.

For my part, i use Fluxbox for my everyday use when i use my box as a desktop environnement for surfing, playing games or general use. But, on the other hand, i use KDE3 for all my coding and more serious stuff (Office apps, editing, etc...).

What's your opinion on usability and overall capability of both of these ? Is KDE or Fluxbox capable of doing every single task as well or bettter then the other or should we keep the linux ideology of choice using the right tool for the right job ?

No flaming, please. I just want to know what people use and how.

FINITE · Guru Joined: 10 May 2002 Posts: 449

KDE really shines in that it gives you alot of "stuff" to use. Its extreemly configurable and there is alot of eye candy. Its a great DE and I use it alot lately now that I have it running smoothly. Its just to damn big though. I am not a "coder" and I just use it cause its good looking and has icons for my girlfriend.

I also have Fluxbox installed and its the fastest damn DE I have ever used. It runs Conqueror faster than KDE ever could. Quite small and doesn't need a power house system at all. Not as EASILY configurable as KDE is but can run all of its apps and faster. Its quit configurable but is somewhat of a pain to deal with. I would say that it and kde tie for my favorite. I would prolly use it alone if not for the fact that it has no icons (without a helper program any ways) and my gf despises it for that.

I have used Gnome in the past but kde has always been better for me. And there are others that I have not used that you should look at.

As for which is better at what I don't think thats a fair question. Both can be as good as the other at the same tasks. I think it just comes down to useability and looks. I can say that if I didn't have kde then I would not have fluxbox. But I would not uninstall fluxbox. Its compactness really appeals to me. I like the tabs and that I can completely configure the "start" menu. I like the look of it and the "slit". And when I add I program to the start menu or a new theme I like feeling like I am hacking it and coding the options in my self (i know, i am a goofball). Well thats the appeal of linux in general is it not, making it what you want it to be. No handcuffs. Well I am straying from the path here. Later

Maldrim · n00b Joined: 30 May 2002 Posts: 30

Just a sidenote to whoever claims KDE has heavy memory usage, i have way more used memory when i run fluxbox then i do when i run KDE. It looks like the same analogy as mozilla vs internet explorer. Mozilla takes 25M of ram in windows while IE takes 10. Now open 5 instances of IE and it takes 50M and 5 isntances of mozilla takes 28M. I think fluxbox uses the IE approach while KDE is more like mozilla. It handles multiple programs better. (Altho the lack of tabs in KDE drives me nuts.)

c_kuzmanic · Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2002 12:31 pm Post subject:

Maldrim · n00b Joined: 30 May 2002 Posts: 30

That is a very good point about memory. The main advantage i see for fluxbox is being closer to the system and way faster access. The right click menu is just 10 years ahead of the window/kde/gnome way of having to click in the toolbar and looking all over. (I know you can change that but the drop-down menu in KDE is just huge and not practical.)

However, KDE is good in serious applications. It is much more comfortable to use office applications and mutiple programs in KDE(Taskbar anyone?). So, when working on big projects i prefer KDE for it's utility and management of multiple programs.

If i can get that much out of fluxbox then by all means tell me how =P

I admit fluxbox is also a way better looking then KDE ever will. Nice desktop btw. =) When i looked at the desktop thread it was the first one that struck me as being great. Mine is at http://pages.infinit.net/maldrim/shot10.jpg

pjp · Administrator Joined: 16 Apr 2002 Posts: 20067

I shutdown X just about every night so seti can have as much CPU as possible. With Fluxbox,
I have to reposition/size windows each time I open it... I don't have the patience for that. As for
the right-click menu being 10 years ahead, thats a matter of opinion... I personally don't like the
right-click menu, but see very little difference between it and the "start" button. After that,
they are very similar.

I use Gnome, won't touch KDE.
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Maldrim · n00b Joined: 30 May 2002 Posts: 30

I admit most of it is suggestive :oops:

However most programs have window positioning capable configuration. Meaning most application can be set to start at a certain place in fluxbox. It's not a fluxbox feature but it's feasible if you really want it. Besides i it's good enough for me since i don't have much windows open.

So then i guess it's just a matter of preference. I was used to linux on KDE/Gnome before but i tried fluxbox and honestly everytime i use KDE for my office apps and co. i get annoyed at the long menu on my right click or just plain bored of moving the mouse all the way down to clock on the big K. Maybe i'm just lazy but i like the practical side of fluxbox. It's that whole mac vs PC mouse thing. Some say 3-button better and mac user say it's too much. I personally can't stand the mac mouse. =P

I find it rather disapointing that we have so many different WM and yet none of them are perfect. Maybe people should concentrate on a few good ones that fills all the niches. Oh well, i guess it wouldn't work anyway. =) That's the whole point of this thread. To get opinions.

pjp · Administrator Joined: 16 Apr 2002 Posts: 20067

I thought window position was a program thing more than a WM setting. However, when I use Fluxbox (or some others) it appears to be a WM issue. If I open Galeon, size it to fill screen top to bottom, move it to the far right edge and then however wide I want it... when I close Galeon, and reopen it, Flux's settings take over, and in my case, Galeon is opened, centered on the screen. I just gave up.
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Maldrim · n00b Joined: 30 May 2002 Posts: 30

I don't think programs such a galeon save their window positioning setting when they close. It must be(correct me if i'm wrong) a gnome/kde feature that remembers the position of a window when you close them. Most programs use a -geom[metry] setting to set the opening position as well as the size of the application. You might try to use that in your menu loading to set up default positions or simply change the program config file if it uses one.

blk_jack · Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2002 4:34 pm Post subject:

I use fluxbox.. and I've been using it for quite some time. I don't use it for speed, although I must admit that it is quite fast. I use it because I like the simplistic look of the themes, I use it because it's very simple and sleak... and moreover I use it because I think that all these super-window managers/desktop managers are too god damn bloated.

I mean that's half the reason you use Gentoo, right? To have complete control over every single package & dependency you use? To be able to know what you're installing and see it actually compile instead of blindly running some .rpm binary package from hell?

I don't like browsing files through a point & click interface. I don't like running commands by clicking, dragging, or whatnot. I don't like a god damn start menu or icons. I don't want a trash bin.

If I wanted those things I'd use Windows. Don't go off on how Windows is this & that & unstable and commercial and blah blah. Hey, I use commercial products without paying as much as the next guy, so that doesn't bother me. I use Linux to code and because I just generally love how everything works with it. If I wanted a dumbed down interface that a 4 year old could use that takes up gigs & gigs of space I'd use Windows XP.

Die KDE die! :evil:

masseya · Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2002 4:26 pm Post subject: why no gnome?

I use Fluxbox and KDE for the exact opposite reasons that the original poster uses them. I really only have KDE installed because it's a nice DE for my non-*nix friends to use when they are at my place and want to use a computer for something. I will sometimes use it if I'm just going to be surfing because it's really nice to look at and allows me to slip into "braindead" mode where I rarely touch the keyboard. Otherwise I like Fluxbox for it's speed and simplicity. It allows me to focus on my coding.

Just out of curiousity, why would someone use Gnome and hate KDE? Is there a rational reason or is it just brand loyalty, like using Equal instead of Sweet 'N Low?
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Maldrim · n00b Joined: 30 May 2002 Posts: 30

Tristam, what do you use for coding ? I just can't use fluxbox because it lacks a real taskbar. Having many windows open is just a pain in fluxbox, even with tabs.

What program do you use ? (I use gvim)

I'm asking because if i can find a program that works well in fluxbox i might switch =)

masseya · Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2002 4:54 pm Post subject: coding in Fluxbox..

I generally use g/vim as well. Most of the time, I simply make and debug my programs using

Maldrim · n00b Joined: 30 May 2002 Posts: 30

I guess i'll give that a try. I'll just have to get used to not loosing my terms all over the place =)

pjp · Administrator Joined: 16 Apr 2002 Posts: 20067

seaweed · n00b Joined: 22 Apr 2002 Posts: 53 Location: NJ, USA

Im have to wonder why someone would compare KDE to Fluxbox. They are not even the same animal.

Fluxbox/Blackbox to IceWM or Enlightenment or Gnome to KDE.

Fluxbox and KDM seem to be on opposite side of the spectrum. And as far as flipping back and forth??? Why? Too much free time maybe.

If you need and/or like KDE over Fluxbox or visa-versa or any other wm/desktop environment is open to opinion. It will vary from person to person, there is no best. It is going to depend on what you need and what works for you.

FINITE · Guru Joined: 10 May 2002 Posts: 449

lx · Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2002 8:43 am Post subject:

Blaze · n00b Joined: 16 Apr 2002 Posts: 24

I'm more of a blackbox fan then a fluxbox fan, but they are similar enough that I can probably comment.

When I'm coding, I have anjuta open in one window, on another desktop I have my console(s) and on a third desktop I have my web browser open.

I have ctrl-left bound to prev desktop, and ctrl-right bound to next desktop, so I make my changes to my code, ctrl-s, ctrl-right arrow, up arrow, enter, ctrl-left arrow, back to coding.

I used to do this with kwrite, but when I would return, the focus would go to the file dropdown instead of the text window which pissed me off

arkane · l33t Joined: 30 Apr 2002 Posts: 918 Location: Phoenix, AZ

delta407 · Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2002 10:21 pm Post subject:

No, IE does not tie into the Windows kernel. "IE" is a handful of DLLs that expose an ActiveX interface that is loaded and used by iexplore.exe.

But, still, arkane is right: the numbers Task Manager shows you are on crack. It does not show physical RAM usage, just the number of pages assigned to it by the VMM. Thus, shared memory (such as memory-mapped files or things resident in RAM from LoadLibrary calls, etc.) is counted per-process, meaning your numbers are still wrong.

dreamer3 · Guru Joined: 24 Sep 2002 Posts: 553

Evangelion · Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2003 11:23 am Post subject:

phunkphorce · Tux's lil' helper Joined: 22 Nov 2002 Posts: 145

easykill · Apprentice Joined: 07 Dec 2002 Posts: 230

It is included in the .14 ebuilds of fluxbox...just edit the ebuild file and uncomment the line (it is commented because it is not an official patch or some other reason i guess) and remerge fluxbox...takes a few minutes to compile only.

What i use is fluxbox for my WM (kde takes too damn long to start, and i like flux better anyway) but I use konqueror for file management, and i have ksensors running on my second display, etc.... I use a lot of the kde programs in flux, as they work quite well. I feel this way i get the best of both worlds. And as far as having too many windows open that the lack of a decent flux taskbar is a problem, having fluxter running and using several desktops solves taht problem easily for me. Just my personal opinion, but I see no need to bicker over this. If you like lightweight WM use flux, and if you want to use the kde programs, they seem to work flawlessly for me in flux.