Hide windows installation

mxa055 · n00b Joined: 09 Oct 2005 Posts: 38

Hi there...

I have a PC that has both Gentoo and WinXP installed with dual boot. The thing I was wondering is if I can completely hide the windows installation.
What I mean is that I don't want anyone but me to know the existence of windows (and any file or program associated with windows) on the system. But I still want to be able to boot into windows, maybe through a hotkey sequence or some command with password protection.

Is that possible in any way?

Thanks in advance,
Michael

simon_irl · Guru Joined: 07 Oct 2004 Posts: 403 Location: New Zealand

easiest way to "hide" the windows installation...and the method i recommend...is get rid of it.

seriously though, how hidden do you need it to be? if you simply make gentoo your default os (in grub) and windows the other one, and give grub a one second pause before launching gentoo, you can have your system boot into gentoo so quickly it won't display the grub menu at all, but let you tap a key to stop the boot if you want to select windows.

if you're worried someone might still catch a glimpse of it, just rename it to something else. or put a password on grub so nobody can (easily) see the horrible thing it really is. all these things can be done with a quick edit of /boot/grub/grub.conf.

of course, this only hides it from a casual observer. there are lots of other things you can do to hide it more thoroughly, but they require more work. i probably shouldn't ask, but...why do you want to hide an entire os? if the installation contains sensitive data, wouldn't it be better just to encrypt the data?

anyway, the boot menu stuff is quick and easy. the "tap an arrow to stop grub" method would look something like:

josh · Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 2:23 pm Post subject:

or if you wanted to be trickier just have Gentoo as a selection in your grub.conf (assuming you're using grub). Then when you want to enter windows just do a 'c' to get to the grub command line and type the commands to boot windows. Which I think would be something like:

dgaffuri · Advocate Joined: 05 Jun 2005 Posts: 2078 Location: Italy

If someone have access to linux he will see the windows partition. Again, the question is why? And who shouldn't see the installation?
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mxa055 · n00b Joined: 09 Oct 2005 Posts: 38

mxa055 · n00b Joined: 09 Oct 2005 Posts: 38

josh · Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 2:50 pm Post subject:

I don't think that there is any sure-fire way to do it. You could manually setup your devices (/dev/) and then there won't be the device file there. Then remove the entry from fstab. But again, someone could still create the device (if they had a good idea of what it was). Or they could boot your computer with a bootdisk that has devfsd or udev. Not sure if you can encrypt windows disks. If its sensitive data, create an encrypted partition in Linux and move it there. I see that you already said that wasn't an option, but I don't see any way to effectively 'hide' windows. You could get it to a point where someone would have to first *suspect* that windows is present and then go from there (boot disk or 31337 haxor shite or whatever).
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mxa055 · n00b Joined: 09 Oct 2005 Posts: 38

ok let's don't get carried away...

I know that it's impossible to hide something from EVERYONE because there is always someone smarter or more qualified than you.
What I need to do is hide windows from a decent computer user, that has some (limited) experience with dual booting, and can navigate himself around linux.

Booting windows with a floppy or with a hidden grub entry (or manually entered entry) and hiding the windows partition from inside linux would be ideal for my situation...(I think :roll:

)

josh · Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 3:23 pm Post subject:

Sorry. sometimes get going...
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neenee · Veteran Joined: 20 Jul 2003 Posts: 1786

if windows is on a separate drive, you could disable
that drive in bios, and put a password on bios.

it might not be very practical if you plan to switch
a lot between the two, but it does completely hide
the windows installation.

calr0x · Apprentice Joined: 16 Aug 2004 Posts: 244

mxa055, perhaps it would be better to tell us more the reasons behind what you need? Tell us the situations you are protecting against and perhaps it will help us know what requirements you need?

It seems to me you need to be more specific about "hiding", as far as to what degree you need something "hidden".

Try and tell us more background to your motivation for needing this, and I'll try to help.

mxa055 · n00b Joined: 09 Oct 2005 Posts: 38

BlackEdder · Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:26 am Post subject:

And using qemu or vmware to run winxp inside linux is also not an option?

batistuta · Veteran Joined: 29 Jul 2005 Posts: 1384 Location: Aachen

Qemu or vmware should be goo options.

As already said, make sure you put a passwd in the BIOS so that he can't boot with a floppy. Also put a password when booting from the second option. But if you really wanna hide it, do as suggested that you have to manually enter grub and activate the second boot. If I remember correctly, grub has two passwords: one for each boot options, another one for entering the command line.

Does this guy have root access? If he doesn't have root access and the partition is not mounted in fstab, I am not sure if he can see the partition type...

With qemu or vmware you would hide it better... the problem is if your intention is playing 3D games after work

TheX · Guru Joined: 31 Jul 2004 Posts: 349 Location: .de

To hide a patition with using a software solution is not possible under linux.
Someone with root-access will find the partition if he wants to.

To be sure that the partition is unaccessable to root is to 'unplug' it before linux gets acces to it.
So plug the harddisk in a seperate HD-CONTROLLER and disable it via BIOS .
Set a Bios password an te partition wouldn't show up anywhere in your OS.
Using this sollution would even stop the harddisk beeing shown at startup ! !

To get acces to your harddisk (if he knows about it) he would have to clear your BIOS and set it up correctly again.

IMHO , this is the only way i could think of to 'hide' a harddisk from a root user.

TheX

batistuta · Veteran Joined: 29 Jul 2005 Posts: 1384 Location: Aachen

TheX inspired and now I have a better one:
Buy a USB case for an external hard drive. Then plug it in when you need Windows, and when not, hide it inside a drawer with a lock or something. You can also bring your beloved Win hard drive home if you need to :lol:

danyer · Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:18 pm Post subject:

mxa055 · n00b Joined: 09 Oct 2005 Posts: 38

dgaffuri · Advocate Joined: 05 Jun 2005 Posts: 2078 Location: Italy

It will not be possible with a dual boot installation to rapidly switch away from windows, unless you remove the power and risk file system corruption. That will be possible with vmware, suspending the virtual machine and closing the program require only some (ten?) seconds. If he doesn't have root access you may hide the virtual machines files from him simply changing directory permissions.
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BlackEdder · Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:14 pm Post subject:

danyer · Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:18 pm Post subject:

Is it not possible to bring another PC? Hide it under your desk and use a KVM to switch from one to another.
This will be the easiest solution. Or if you don't need 3d acceleration, use VMware player, it's free.

Good luck,
Dan.

calr0x · Apprentice Joined: 16 Aug 2004 Posts: 244

I really feel your best option is vmware.

I have no idea what level of competency your admin/fellow workers have in linux, but I can say that if they look I just can't think of a way to hide windows from linux completely, especially where you are booted into it and need to get out quick. If your in windows and a worker walks in, the ONLY way to really hide it is by holding the power button for 5secs or killing the monitor. MAYBE running an app that looks like linux in fullscreen MAY work, but I wouldn't trust that.

VMware tho runs windows IN a window. Combine this with virtual desktops such as KDE or Gnome offer, and now you can run windows in a diff virtual desktop that you can set a hotkey to switch AWAY from. If VMWare is on Desktop 3, set a hotkey to goto Desktop 1 with just like alt+1 or something. The "fake computer" VMWare will create will be a few files in a folder, which would be pretty easy to hide EXCEPT for the fact one of the files will be the size of the fake harddrive you make. As an example, if you wanted a fake 5 gig drive, VMWare will have to make a 5gig file to emulate this drive. Also as you stated, 3D accel won't be an option. But I'm not sure what you would need it for? I assume if you're doing 3D work that your company will have the necessary software for you... Otherwise theres gaming and that'll be even more a bitch to hide.

IMO, This is the best situation for you atm. But it too has some probs. #1 is I don't know if the company itself will have a problem w/ you installing apps like this w/o their consent. #2 is whether you purchase VMWare or warez it, and the complications of running pirated software on a corporate computer might be tough.

All in all based of what you seem to need thats my recommendation.. It is only superceded by the fact I don't recommend doing ANY of this since I'm sure it's against quite a few rules relating to your company. I don't mean this harshly, but there's something shady about your needs relating to this, esp relating to needing 3D accel in a company that's using linux..

Again, I recommend you laying out EXACTLY what you plan on doing w/ this system because a part of me feel like you don't wanna say for fear we may disapprove... =P

batistuta · Veteran Joined: 29 Jul 2005 Posts: 1384 Location: Aachen

You've said it first calr0x..
I work at a company where they use Windows. I have to ask for permission whatever I install. I can't install freeware/open source SW. I hate it. But that's my job. If I am less productive in Windows, bad luck... I get paid for that and if we don't finish on time they pay extra hours. I've accepted your job and I have to stick with the rules.

I think most of us here think that way... it is company ethics. Different is if the company allows this, and some very influencing guy is against it for some wierd-ass reason reason. But doing this stuff in a work environment is not the best way to go.

If you wanna play games, just do a great job at your company, and before you know you will save the 150 bucks you need for a Paystation 2

simon_irl · Guru Joined: 07 Oct 2004 Posts: 403 Location: New Zealand

mxa055 · n00b Joined: 09 Oct 2005 Posts: 38

Guys, I think you are taking this the wrong way. I am not hiding anything (trying to, but not yet :lol:

). I don't know about the companies you work for but at my company things aren't that strict (6 people in total btw), I can pretty much do anything I want on my PC, format, install, throw out the window :lol:

(jk). It's just that nobody wants to bother about having to do something to change somebody elses life in here. I wouldn't be suprised if they were ok with windows if I hadn't bothered them with asking in the first place. This has become sort of a small project for me, not so much for the result but mostly for the experience.
Well anyhow, I don't need flash or photoshop as my main tools (these are only examples btw), they just make my life easier. And about gaming, I haven't ever played a game on this PC, but I wouldn't want to lose the option of 3D accelleration even if I never use it.

Now for the technical stuff besides my psychological profile, if I got this right... you say that if I have an hdd with windows on USB2, I would have to normally shutdown windows and then remove the drive right? What about hotswap (don't know exactly how it works, I have only heard what it does).

I might give vmware a try.