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GNUtoo
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 Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:50 pm Post subject: Re: Efi |
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| rotlicht wrote: | I already had to do with the EFI Bios which is used by the MacBook Pro because I installed a 4 processor cluster which had efi on board. Not an easy thing I can tell but it should work.
The only thing you need seems to be elilo which is the lilo pendant for the efi bios. Just to make you things easier. You need one fat partition where you put the kernel in. This is important. Don't use efi or efi gpt as partition type. That took 3 or four days until I got it. ANother thing is if you boot from the life cd from gentoo and you emerged elilo make an "export loop=,loop" elilo needed that to install correctly. |
i thoat you could boot the kernel with EFI as you can with open-firmware
wow thanks a lot...
i always wondered how to boot from loop (now i can boot livecds,loop-distributions...(in order to compile gentoo for anothercomputer more easely(yes you can do it also with some gentoo tools...))) |
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GNUtoo
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Evangelion wrote: | | All those companies recommend XP |
even IBM is/was recommanding XP...that is true...
it's simple IBM is a big company...and there is/was a war between the main IBM company and it's home-computer division
as linux tovalds sayed in an interview...we need some big companies such as red-hat(he didn't mentioned red-hat,and tis is not his exact words) (and ibm but he wasn't thinking about them)
red-hat ->linux marketting
IBM -> verry important...protect us from microsoft's patent threat...
if microsoft sue someone for the fat patent...ibm would sue microsoft for infridging a lot of their patent on microsoft windows...that is problematic and could prevent microsoft from selling windows...(because they are infridging too much ibm patent)
and by the way ibm shared a lot(most? all?) of patent with the open-source comunity...
(they could have been the only-one who could use open-source... and they sared the patents...wow but mabe that would have led to the abandon of the software patent system) |
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neuromancerzero
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 10:06 pm Post subject: Gentoo on the Mac books |
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| Has anyone on this board done a complete install. I know all the news says no, but if someone were to do it, it probably would be a gentoo user. I'm considering buying one, and if i can get gentoo on it, the decision is made.Also, any news from the developers about EFI support? |
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petrjanda
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Location: Brno, Czech Republic
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 12:29 am Post subject: |
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| Evangelion wrote: |
What is? The OS? For the last time: I WOULDN'T BE RUNNING THAT OS! Windows is not open either, yet you don't whine when people buy hardware that was designed for Windows! Double-standards and hypocrisy? it sure seems like that to me!
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Well first of all, you seem to be making some conclusions, but they are based on wrong assumptions that i said this, said that, didnt say this, didnt say that. Im equally against all companies that support microsoft. and thats why i build my own computers, always.
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Oh yes you did. Maybe not with those words, but the message is there. Buying Apple is apparently not OK. Then why is it OK to buy Sony, Dell, Gateway or HP? All those companies recommend XP, all those companies design their computers for Windows, all those companies pay money to Microsoft. Why is it OK to buy one of those computers, but it's NOT ok to buy a Mac? Answer that question. I'm just dying to hear your logic and insight on this matter!
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Never said its ok.
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- If I bought a MacBook, I would erase OS X, and replace it with Linux.
- As a result, the OS I would be running would be 100% open source and free.
- Therefore, it's 100% irrelevant what kind of OS OS X would be, since I WOULD NOT BE RUNNING IT.
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If you bought MacBook and put Linux on it, you still knowingly support company that doesnt make free software, hides source code from you, and limits your freedom. The world of free and open software needs real supporters, that is why GNU was made, and that is why we have the GPL.
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Irrelevant. Fact remains that they are major supporters of open-source projects. Would we be better off if they DIDN'T support open-source? Seriously? I welcome Apple's contribution with open arms.
And they support open-source software outside FreeBSD. Their comment about open source software was made when they announced WebCore. They also contribute to Samba and GCC, and neither of those are related to FreeBSD. |
They contribute to those because they depend on them. if they didnt, their reputation would suffer terribly: they do it because used because half of Mac OS X comes from open source.
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Evangelion
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:26 am Post subject: |
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| petrjanda wrote: | | Well first of all, you seem to be making some conclusions, but they are based on wrong assumptions that i said this, said that, didnt say this, didnt say that. Im equally against all companies that support microsoft. and thats why i build my own computers, always. |
Good luck with building your own laptop.
| Quote: | | If you bought MacBook and put Linux on it, you still knowingly support company that doesnt make free software |
English, do you speak it? I said that Apple contributes to KHTML, GCC, Samba and other projects. Therefore they ARE making free software. True, not all of their software is free, but they are making free software as well. So your forementioned claim is FALSE.
Name one hardware-company that makes free software and ONLY free software. When you build your machine, better not use NVIDIA or ATI vid-cards in 'em because they too make closed-source software. AMD and Intel make closed-source software, so their CPU's are out of the question. I think most MoBo-makers also make closed software, not to mention chipset-makers. So you are basically stuck. Everywhere you look, you see companies making closed software, so their products are off-limits to you. Do tell me: what are the specs of your machine? Then we can go through all the closed software the component-makers make. After we are finished with that, I expect that you will destroy your computer, since it's infected by companies that make closed software.
Besides, you better stop using Linux then, since Linus Torvalds uses PowerMac as his main-machine. Oh the humanity! I believe Keith Packard uses an IBM-laptop, and since IBM makes closed software, you better stop using X then as well.
| Quote: | | hides source code from you |
Yeah, they sure do
| Quote: | | and limits your freedom. |
[
IBM limits my freedom. HP limits my freedom. Countless other companies limit my freedom. Yet when they contribute to the community, we welcome them with open arms. Lots and lots of people buy hardware from them. But when Apple does it, you bitch and moan. Fact remains that they have still contributed a lot to the community, and the community is that much better, thanks to those contributions.
Basically Apple could keep everything closed. They could still sell closed software and limit my freedom, and not contribute anything back. But instead they sell closed software and limit my freedom, but they also contribute a lot to the community. I don't know about you, but I would rather prefer the latter than the former.
| Quote: | | The world of free and open software needs real supporters, that is why GNU was made, and that is why we have the GPL. |
Would free software be better off if Apple DIDN'T contribute to KHTML, GCC, Samba and other projects? Would GCC be better off if it didn't have Apple's backing? Would KHTML be better off if Apple didn't have legion of programmers improving it?
| Quote: | | They contribute to those because they depend on them. if they didnt, their reputation would suffer terribly: they do it because used because half of Mac OS X comes from open source. |
Read my lips: so_frigging_what? Do you think that IBM contributes to Linux out of the goodness of their hearts? No. Do you think that Red Hat contributes out of the goodness of their hearts? No. All those companies contribute because they see an advantage in doing so. Now that Apple does it, you bitch and moan.
Like I said: smells like double-standards and hypocrisy.
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mdeininger
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:50 am Post subject: |
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well, trust me in one thing: Mac OS X is *awesome* so maybe you'd be better off sticking to that... and you can also install portage on OSX, so why put linux on the poor thing? =) j/k, I was intending to do the same, but since OSX is unix, I saw no reason to...
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sktrdie
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| petrjanda wrote: | | Evangelion wrote: |
What is? The OS? For the last time: I WOULDN'T BE RUNNING THAT OS! Windows is not open either, yet you don't whine when people buy hardware that was designed for Windows! Double-standards and hypocrisy? it sure seems like that to me!
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Well first of all, you seem to be making some conclusions, but they are based on wrong assumptions that i said this, said that, didnt say this, didnt say that. Im equally against all companies that support microsoft. and thats why i build my own computers, always.
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Oh yes you did. Maybe not with those words, but the message is there. Buying Apple is apparently not OK. Then why is it OK to buy Sony, Dell, Gateway or HP? All those companies recommend XP, all those companies design their computers for Windows, all those companies pay money to Microsoft. Why is it OK to buy one of those computers, but it's NOT ok to buy a Mac? Answer that question. I'm just dying to hear your logic and insight on this matter!
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Never said its ok.
| Quote: |
- If I bought a MacBook, I would erase OS X, and replace it with Linux.
- As a result, the OS I would be running would be 100% open source and free.
- Therefore, it's 100% irrelevant what kind of OS OS X would be, since I WOULD NOT BE RUNNING IT.
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If you bought MacBook and put Linux on it, you still knowingly support company that doesnt make free software, hides source code from you, and limits your freedom. The world of free and open software needs real supporters, that is why GNU was made, and that is why we have the GPL.
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Irrelevant. Fact remains that they are major supporters of open-source projects. Would we be better off if they DIDN'T support open-source? Seriously? I welcome Apple's contribution with open arms.
And they support open-source software outside FreeBSD. Their comment about open source software was made when they announced WebCore. They also contribute to Samba and GCC, and neither of those are related to FreeBSD. |
They contribute to those because they depend on them. if they didnt, their reputation would suffer terribly: they do it because used because half of Mac OS X comes from open source. |
I was wondering, what kind of hardware do you buy? It's pretty hard to find good open-source hardware support.
I would say the PPC is good, with Pegasos. But that's really slower than anything compared to AMD or Intel.
And if you AMD or Intel you pretty much know that you are not supporting free community |
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R!tman
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:36 am Post subject: |
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We're all posting things here in the GENTOO LINUX FORUM. So I guess we're all pro open source software and against proprietary software.
Why don't we just leave it at that and stop the rediculous discussion?!
We're all one big happy open source family!  |
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Evangelion
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:50 am Post subject: |
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| R!tman wrote: | We're all posting things here in the GENTOO LINUX FORUM. So I guess we're all pro open source software and against proprietary software.
Why don't we just leave it at that and stop the rediculous discussion?!
We're all one big happy open source family! |
Of course we are all against proprietary software. That's not even an issue. The issue here is HARDWARE. Apparently buying hardware from a company that makes closed software (although many such comoanies also make/support free software, like Apple does) is strictly forbidden. If that was the case, then we wouldn't be buying ANY hardware. AMD, Intel, NVIDIA, ATI, Via, SIS etc. etc., they all make closed-source software, so apparently we shouldn't buy any hardware from them. I wonder what hardware we COULD buy then?
Hell, is the code-morphing software from transmeta free software? If it isn't, the Transmeta is out of the question as well.
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pinger
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:55 am Post subject: |
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| People have different ideological standards. To the more extreme, I guess buying anything from a company not 100% OSS is out of the question. To the less radical (and more realistic) among us, compromise is just fine. No real point in arguing about what is essentially a matter of opinion and personal convictions. |
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sktrdie
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:56 am Post subject: |
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Transmeta is a very interesting chip
I was wondering what's happening with it, it's been quite a while I didn't hear any news on it. I hope some other Microsoft company didn't buy it. |
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R!tman
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 11:34 am Post subject: |
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@ Evangelion:
My software is running on hardware too . I just wanted to calm you guys down a little. BTW, I try to buy my hardware piecewise. That way, windows is not preinstalled.
@all:
Even hardware is dividable, not only software. With EFI, apple may have taken a step towards some kind of hardware DRM, although they deny it. On the other hand, there is also the open graphics project.
I wouldn't post here if I hated the macbook pro (although I hate the new name). But somehow I doubt the macbook will have full linux support, ie like my T43p where EVERYTHING works. It would be nice (and I would get one then if they put the 64bit dual core in, probably late this year) but I have my doubts. |
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Rawn027
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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Untl last year i was 100% mac user, now I have an amd 64 processor do run all the other operating systems. Let me tell you mac os is the best operating system, unless you want to use your macbook as a headless server (i dont know why) there is no need to run linux on there... If you really wanted to, you would need a live-cd with an EFI boot loader, there is no BIOS butit can be done.
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floffe
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| R!tman wrote: | @ Evangelion:
My software is running on hardware too . I just wanted to calm you guys down a little. BTW, I try to buy my hardware piecewise. That way, windows is not preinstalled. |
That's a fair bit harder with laptops, which I think was the point here. |
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R!tman
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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| floffe wrote: | | R!tman wrote: | @ Evangelion:
My software is running on hardware too . I just wanted to calm you guys down a little. BTW, I try to buy my hardware piecewise. That way, windows is not preinstalled. |
That's a fair bit harder with laptops, which I think was the point here. |
It was like this a couple of years before. But today, at least here in Zurich, there are "cusomize your laptop shops" almost around every corner.
Funny, did you know that alienware laptopd are just a simple case you can buy anywhere with a fancy monitor top and a special color? But for these two things only, these machines cost ~1000US$ more! 
EDIT: but on the other hand you are probably right, eg for subnotebooks. I am not sure if these are as customizable as others, especially concerning the OS. |
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89c51
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Evangelion
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| R!tman wrote: | | floffe wrote: | | R!tman wrote: | @ Evangelion:
My software is running on hardware too . I just wanted to calm you guys down a little. BTW, I try to buy my hardware piecewise. That way, windows is not preinstalled. |
That's a fair bit harder with laptops, which I think was the point here. |
It was like this a couple of years before. But today, at least here in Zurich, there are "cusomize your laptop shops" almost around every corner. |
I have seen those. And in 99.9% of the times, those laptops look like utter shit.
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nixnut
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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Moved from Installing Gentoo to Gentoo Chat.
Not installation support.
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djscribble
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Donpasquale wrote: | coule be that windows vista will run on there since vista supports efi.
I just want osx and linux running with the speed of this nice new piece of hardware.
And: sure i got a cam. i will send pics as soon as it will arrive here. From what the apple guy told me im one of the very first customers getting one. I ordered about half an hour after the presentation.
Hopefully we will get it to run fast then. cant wait to see my new macbook outperforming the g5 next to it. |
You can get windows XP running on it by using elilo and then configuring that just like you would have configured lilo (why wait for vista ) but just remember to configure elilo to have a boot from CD option |
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genmich
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DeathChill
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:21 am Post subject: Gentoo on Intel iMac's? |
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I was wondering if there was any information on installing Gentoo Linux on the new Intel iMac's? I know that there's been a problem with getting Windows to boot because of the fact that XP doesn't support EFI and Vista doesn't understand the GPT system, but do these problems also plague the current Gentoo version?
If it's currently impossible to boot Gentoo, are the developers working on getting it to boot? I'm not to worried about dual booting, as being able to boot Gentoo on it at all would be a major accomplishment. |
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Tamsco
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 3:57 am Post subject: |
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I know for a fact that EFI is supported in the x86_64 isos but I don't know if it's supported in the x86 version. Either way I don't beleive that really matters, you should be able to make a partition, mount it and chroot through OS X and then install elilo or grub as the bootloader.
Doing a google search however has turned peopel saying that the hard part about putting grub on an Intewl Mac is the fact that OS X doesn't like it.
So in answer to your question yes you can but it's not painless.
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Evangelion
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 7:47 am Post subject: |
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| djscribble wrote: | | You can get windows XP running on it by using elilo and then configuring that just like you would have configured lilo (why wait for vista ) but just remember to configure elilo to have a boot from CD option |
You CAN'T get XP to run on it, not with elilo or with anything else. XP expects to find BIOS in the computer. If it doesn't, it will not work. XP needs to support EFI in order to work, and since it doesn't....
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sktrdie
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 8:08 am Post subject: |
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The Ars Technica article is pretty wrong in my opinion.
It says that nobody will want to buy a MacBook to run Linux exclusively...
Personally now that Apple has switched to x86, I feel like (as a 100% only linux user) Apple is the only choice over others. First of all I mean look at the macbook PRO, a DUAL-core, built in isight, built in everything, small with a wide beautiful screen, this thing is amazing, and look at the price, only 1999$.
With that price I can get a ThinkPad which doesn't have all those goodies, and it's only single core.
Apple & Linux will bond even more (after we get over this EFI thing), and it will eventually become the personal workstation, desktop or laptop for every Linux user.
It's just better price and hardware compared to others.
Of course has a server there other possibilities, but has a laptop or slick desktop these things ROCK! |
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GNUtoo
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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hey i found how to run windows and lillo(i was surfing and i found this...(fosem->stalman->High Priority Free Software Projects>linux-bios(wanted to check out if they added more motherboard support)->this))... on theses apple machines...
http://linuxbios.org/index.php/ADLO
but this may require some work... but seems easyer than writing an efi extention(seen this in a famous article on running windows on mac)
but mabe doing this is possible:
boot from efi->boot linux-bios kernel->adlo->windows or lillo
but we could make the folowing thing:
boot from efi->linux-bios->linux
this is interesting if efi isn't bugged(for example bios are a lot bugged)
you could have an ide compact flash with linux-bios and so...modifying it a little bit you could have linux capabilities at boot...
->software raid+root...
->you could crypt your hdd with smardcard or similar
->do the ultimate root+raid+crypted-hdd+...
->boot from usb
->boot your real kernel from ssh
...the possibilities are infinite...
i should try this on a desktop machine...
Last edited by GNUtoo on Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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