NDISWRAPPER on the livecd

[Bad Penguin]

[Bad Penguin]

[amne]

I give up, whatever. This is pointless. Even if there are plenty of other ways to solve your problem, if you want to demand ndiswrapper on the Live-CD to make a point, have a nice day.
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Dinosaur week! (Ok, this thread is so last week)

[codergeek42]

[brainiac_ghost]

[Bad Penguin]

[Bad Penguin]

[codergeek42]

[Bad Penguin]

[brainiac_ghost]

[codergeek42]

[Bad Penguin]

[Bad Penguin]

[Shadow Skill]

You made a good point BP I didn't even think of repair situations at first but now that I think about it I do occassionally use the install media for such things and it would be a very good idea to be able to use the wireless connection to do the trouble shooting if it happens to be broken on the actual system.
_________________
Ware wa mutekinari.
Wa ga kage waza ni kanau mono nashi.
Wa ga ichigeki wa mutekinari.

"First there was nothing, so the lord gave us light. There was still nothing, but at least you could see it."

[slycordinator]

[opopanax]

[mkzelda]

I guess I should have picked a better city to live in, with a better apartment complex, that offered better internet service than wireless. Silly me.

The last place I lived, wireless wass provided by my apartment complex, as was the hardware. I had no option when it came to the hardware, and I had no alternative ISP.
I suppose it was my fault for living there. Or, maybe it was the apartment complex's fault? Maybe it was the city's fault.

Point is, why is it impossible for some to figure out that there are circumstances in which a wired install is not possible or at least plausible. Where I currently live, I'm using wireless again. I do have alternatives, but they cost double the amount. I suppose I could run a wire outside of my apartment to a neighbor's with a wired connection, assuming they'd allow me to. Some might see the wire as an eyesore and complain, however.

The "IF YOU DONT LIKE IT TOUGH!! GO USE SOMETHING ELSE" attitude is something that I rarely see in the open source community, and until now, I'd never experienced with any gentoo representatives. This mentality is counterproductive, and eventually will lead people to say "OKAY, I WILL *******."

Since I have alternatives, I'm less bothered by a simple "NO, sorry, we dont feel adding this feature is the best idea at this time." I am however bothered by the "nobody cares about you" response though (and I can imagine this is the root of many other's uproar). One would think that a moderator would be expected to exercise a little more discretion.

[_Zero]

[Brick_Wall]

[mkzelda]

In (re)reading this entire thread a couple times, it seems to me that most of those opposed either fail or choose not to understand that nobody is requesting the windows drivers be included on the livecd. Only the app and module are requested, eliminating legal woes. While I think this has been properly explained, I don't think it has sunken in yet. This is my attempt at clearing that up.

So the list of *bogus* cons are:
- Legal concerns
- Anyone who needs this doesn't count (who cares about them)
- It may not work anyways
- Everyone can do a wired or networkless install (if all hardware was homogenous, maybe)

What I consider to be *somewhat* valid cons:
- Supporting "made for windows" hardware is questionable
- Devs are too lazy / dont have enough time / dont own the hardware to test it (semi-legit, the feature could be marked unsupported and/or anyone here needing it would be willing to do any testing)
- Devs dont want to add anything new to the livecd than they have to for the sake of keeping it simple (I guess, but for some its not even functional. So whats the point?)

Honestly, I don't really see the problem here. I would love a good reason for why this feature shouldn't be added other than nobody cares about us. I feel like Kanye West post Katrina right about now.

[pilla]

[pilla]

Let's get some things straight before we continue.

First, moderators do not ban people based on their points of view. We ban people if they don't follow forum guidelines.

Second, moderators have the same right than other users to express their thoughts. This includes arguing why they think some stuff should or should not be in the LiveCD, based on things like the extra cost for testing, license issues and so on.

Third, amne has shown other alternatives that do not add overhead to our developers, like using a CD from another distro -- a proven method to install or fix Gentoo systems, or remastering your own CD. He also asks people to be more careful when buying hardware, not only because they can get easier support, but because in this way they can support hardware vendors that actually care about Linux enough to at least disclosure their hardware specification.

Fourth, if you want to contact developers, the best way to do so is to hang at one of the irc channels or to post a bug. It doesn't matter much if you convince us that ndiswrapper should be in the LiveCD if you don't convince developers. Please keep in mind that Gentoo is about voluntary work, and that means that nobody gets paid to do it. And that means that, besides asking in a nice way, you cannot force developers to do what you want.

You can always start a new distro, if you think none of the current fulfills your requirements.
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"I'm just very selective about the reality I choose to accept." -- Calvin

[Shadow Skill]

Does that exscuse trying to shout down users and using nonexistant problems as exscuses for not doing something? We don't need to get anything straight here only some of the staff seem to need to do this. I keep hearing exscuses for this sort of behavior such as its free etc but these are essentially the same exscuses used by companies you buy products from for not fixing bugs or otherwise correctly implementing features. If I really, really, really wanted to I am sure I could hack id3tag database type support into my current mp3 player or fix the broken implementation of my previous one which may or may not be illegal but why should I do that when it is the manufacturer that is creating the problem? There are no real liscensing issues with the kernel module itself and users who want to install and or otherwise use Gentoo should not have to use another distro to either begin or repair a Gentoo installation that sort of thing should logically be done by media provided by Gentoo itself not Knoppix or Mepis which may or may not run on hardware that Gentoo runs properly on.

He doesn't ask people to be more careful he blames them for not buying hardware that has native Linux support even though in reality doing so is not always possible and even if it is the available hardware does not always do exactly what the user needs of that particular type of hardware where as a peice of hardware supported through this particular module does more if not all of what the user needs and is readily available through known [to the user]channels. Then there is of course the fact that alot of this hardware is preexisting in the sense that the user possesed this hardware before becoming interested in Linux at all and has found that buying totally new hardware is unnessecary since there is a known method for making the existing hardware work more or less correctly with Linux. He also calls the hardware creepy I mean come on how is hardware creepy just because you don't happen to have it yourself?
_________________
Ware wa mutekinari.
Wa ga kage waza ni kanau mono nashi.
Wa ga ichigeki wa mutekinari.

"First there was nothing, so the lord gave us light. There was still nothing, but at least you could see it."

[Bad Penguin]

[pilla]