Need more clarifications about Gentoo - Linux system

[SAngeli]

Hi,

Out of my confusion, I am slowly understanding how Linux works. I wish to ask for further clarifications on individual tasks for building a PC so that I am able to choose what I wish to implement when building my own PC.

So far I understand there are several levels of "things" that make Linux PC function. Here is what I learned:
1) Boot loader
2) Kernel along with the Linux distro chosen
3) Xorg
4) Login Manager
5) Desktop Manager
6) Windows Manager
7) Monitor Manager
All the rest (like Audio, Network, Printing, and applications in general).

QUESTIONS:
a) "1" As for boot loader I learned I can chose between Lilo and Grub (which I currently use). I would be interested in learning how to customize not only the picture but somehow the entire interface of Grub to my desire. Example: Ubuntu has its own look. Is this possible with Grub?
b) "4" Is it possible to mix login managers reguardless of whch desktop manager I use? Example: gnome with kdm; kde with entrance or gdm.
c) "5" What does this really do? I fail to understand the task performed by this section. Does it take care of sound, print, automount...? I really do not have a clue. Please explain...
d) "5" Moreover, as for Desktop Manager I see still a choice between kde and gnome and a big preference and predominance being built around GTK+. It seems gnome has strenghts because of "something". KDE does not because it does not use what gnome has. Can someone please explain better? I am really confused and I believe this is an important part to understand in order to make proper choice.
e) "6" This as I understand is what manages anything that I see on the Monitor, like Appearence and Themes, mouse, menu... This to me shoud be one of the fastest one to perform/operate along with the Login Manager so that a user does not waist time waiting for things to load. So far I am considering to switch from kde to either flux or (en16-17 or fvwm) So far I like flux but I just dislike how the menu extends. I might end up with 5 or 6 menus one on top of the ohter. Rahter I really like how en manages menu. The more it opens more menu the more it moves the entire block aside so that you do not get crossed menu. Is this possible in flux as you know? Any advice on this?
f) "7" this should be just how what is displayed on the monitor is managed, located, positioned. Is this right? Please elaborate on this too?

Please let me know.

Thank you,
Spiro

[Ateo]

[SAngeli]

In reference to your answers:
a) could you please suggest some documentation, if you aware of, that would show me how to customize grub?
c) Managing my desktop... does it mean manage where my files are stored as an example? Does what Control Center manage have any relation with managing my desktop? Does it have to do with icons, shortcuts, appearence of my desktop? I really fail to understand what might be easy to see.
d) I seem to read that gnome is part of the light weight desktop manager where instead kde is not. Now, there must be some sort of technical reasons for preferring one Desktop Manager to the other besides appearene, right or I am wrong? Could you please try to let me understand what is a criteria for choosing a Desktop Manager, keeping in mind speed and stability? I ask this question because I wish to base my decision not only on appearence, if possible. I run kde for one year now, and find it ok but annoying when I have to log on or when I have to run an application, even konqueror that takes time to load.
e) Perhaps I did not explain properly this section. Here another try: One day I tried flux and what I do not like about is that when you right click with your mouse and browse through menu and submenu if for example you go three level deep you might end up with one menu showing ontop of the other (quite messy). Instead, with en16 or 17 when you move from one menu to the other you never see one menu on top of the other. Now, can this be done with flux too or not?
f) superkaramba or applications like these that position buttons, calendars, icons, etc.

Thank you for your answers,
Spiro

[dmartinsca]

Regarding "Desktop Managers":

What you probably mean is Desktop Environment. This refers to things like KDE, Gnome, and XFCE4. A desktop environment includes a window manager, usually some kind of panel where you can start applications from, a file manager, some kind of 'control centre' to configure your desktop, etc. Gnome, KDE, and XFCE4 are all just a collection of applications which are designed to integrate well together. For example, Gnome uses a window manager called Metacity, a file manager called Nautilus, but you could easily use another file manager, like ROX, or the one that is packaged with KDE.

A window manager is simply another application that runs on top of X11 (Xorg). Without a window manager, any applications you started would have no border around them, no title bar, and no close, minimize, and maximize buttons. You'd have no way to move the applications around, they'd just be stuck on the desktop, probably overlapping one another.

As for which Desktop environment or window manager to choose, it all comes down to what ever you like best. They all have their strong points. The nice thing about KDE and Gnome is good integration between all of their components. Personally i use fluxbox because it is very lightweight and still can be made to look good. I don't know if the menu behaviour can be changed in fluxbox but i do agree that it is not the best.

I hope this helps a bit.. i've kind of lost track of where i was going

[konny77]

with regard to f): As for superkaramba, gdesklet or adesklet, those just place applets on your desktop. those applets are scripts or programms and have nothing to do with the default desktop of kde, gnome or whatever DE/WM your are using.
the desktop management (icon, right-click-menu etc) is also just provided by some program which comes with your DE/WM. gnome uses nautilus for the desktop, kde, i dont know (i use only seldom), xfce comes with xfdesktop. still you can just start nautilus from within xfce and you will get the gnome desktop. rox for instance can be used as a desktop manager too.

[augury]

X11 provides an interface to mainly (as far as hardware goes) graphics cards and graphics functions, handles keyboard and other input and provides a window frame work w/ pointer functions. It can also render text and produce images. Media can be displayed through X11 interfaces w/ the graphic card. The desktop engine uses this to create a background, windows, menus, icons, dnd abilities. This content is contextual rather than structural in nature. In addition to this a desktop engine may provide basic applications to facilitate the use of the computer such as widget to run a command or control setting.

[SAngeli]

Hi all,

thank you for your explanations.
If I wish to install kde or gnome only as desktop environment and flux as windows manager is there a howto that explains step by step how to implement this change?

Also, as it is not possible to installa windows manager without a desktop environment when I completed installation of basic gentoo os, can I install only the desktop environment (with minimal applications) of either gnome or kde and then install my windows manager from which I then start emerging what ever application I need? Any reference guide to this?

My goal is to install things that are always fast where I do not have to wait time for logons, loading apps....

Sound, printers, video, mouse shoudl all be handled independently from the desktop environment. Is this correct? If so, how come with kde I have arts running rather than alsa? I wish some explanations on this as do not understand.

Thank you for your answers.
Spiro

[konny77]

Hi,
you can certainly just perform a minimal install of Gnome or KDE and then use whatever WM you want. Still you should keep in mind that installing any further Gnome/KDE specific apps might pull a long list of additional packages. I dont know how well e17 or any of the 'boxes' integrate and run in Gnome/KDE, but if you want something fast, try XFCE4 which is a rather light but complete DE.

Your hardware is handled pretty much independent from any DE. But DEs provide some front-ends and/or daemons which help interacting with the hardware driver. For instance, alsa is the hardware driver for your soundcard while the arts daemon (esd is the equivalent daemon from Gnome) hooks up on alsa. so why use arts? it simply provides some additional features. the most important is that multiple applications can use the soundcard via arts (or esd). if you run a music or video player, it would have exclusive access to your soundcard without a sound daemon and any other app trying to play any sound would be blocked. just try it yourself: shutdown arts, fire up Amarok (or any other player) and then try to start a conversation with Skype or start another music player.

[user317]