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mmiller0521
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 77
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 Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:19 pm Post subject: Nothing seems to compare to Gentoo |
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Ok, so I use to be a big Gentoo fan, and then I was lured away, and let me tell you why I need to find a way to com eback.
First off, I prefer the KDE desktop, mainly because I think it looks more Windows Like ( I know I know, but I like the XP feel to things) And also because I like Kdevelop ( I do alot of C and C++ coding and like that particualar IDE) However, it always semed to take forever before a new release of KDE became stable in portage, and I like to stay up to date with the OS that I like. I use to use Gnome, but it seemed it was always unstable as well, and I never found a Good IDE for it. Anyways, I left Gentoo and went through Fedora, then Mepis, then ArchLinux, then PCLinuxOS, and now I'm sad to say I'm writting this on Kubuntu. The thing that has left me feeling a longing for Gentoo is the fact that my Gentoo install always semeed to run so much faster. These distro's that I've used have a pre built kernel and tons of modules running that I odn't even need. I prefer to not use modules anyways, if I need somthing for the most part, I like to just build it into the kernel.
So here is my question Gentoo community. How do I switch back to Gentoo, yet stay fairly up to date with new KDE and Gnome versions as they become available? I hear running an entirely ~x86 system would hurt me, and also, has the time it takes before something goes 'stable' decreased any? Or will it still be about four months before the newest KDE version goes stable?
I really want to figure out how to use Gentoo, and stay as up to date as possible.
Thanks,
Mitch |
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Philantrop
Retired Dev
Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 1130
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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I've been running entirely on ~x86 for years now. About once a year it really hurts badly and I panic for a short while (no, not only on my birthday ;) ).
About twice a year it hurts (but not badly) and I feel like hunting down some Gentoo devs. ;)
Sometimes (> two times per year) I feel like "what did they think?!" (like very recently when they decided nvidia-glx-8762 is incompatible with X.org X11 7.1 which works perfectly fine for me).
So I do and will always use "~ARCH" as I can cope with the pain and I recommend running ~ARCH to those people of whom I know they are either programmers, masochists or simply skilled Linux (yes, I still call it "Linux", not "GNU/Linux", RMS) users.
As for KDE I'm running the KDE SVN split ebuilds. That way, I'm always up to date.
And I'm using about 18 overlays that help me being up to date and on the edge (of my chair and the nervous breakdown ;) ) all the time.
So I'd say, Mitch, go for it. Gentoo is my addiction and you should let it become yours, too. ;-) |
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None9
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 16 Apr 2005
Posts: 101
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not sure about it, but I think the last KDE update was in portage after just a couple of days (was it 2?) 
EDIT:
I'm also using ~x86.
Seems like I was 2 mins slow  |
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mmiller0521
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| How well does the graphical installer work? Or does that defeat the purpose of Gentoo since it won't be building things from source? |
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Philantrop
Retired Dev
Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 1130
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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Let me ask you a question first: Are you a man or a mouse? A graphical installer? Are we Suse or Windows? Real men don't use graphical installers especially not for installing Gentoo. ;-)
A graphical installer for Gentoo is as much an oxymoron as informed management, military intelligence or reasonable discussion are (thank you, XEmacs team!).
It might work but I'd never use it anyway. |
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omp
Retired Dev
Joined: 10 Sep 2005
Posts: 1018
Location: Glendale, California
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| mmiller0521 wrote: | | How well does the graphical installer work? |
It's very problematic from what I hear. Look at the Installing Gentoo forum and you'll see what I mean.
| mmiller0521 wrote: | | Or does that defeat the purpose of Gentoo since it won't be building things from source? |
No, it does not defeat the purpose. This is because even if you install your system with binary packages, you will eventually be replacing those packages with your own compiled ones as you update packages or change USE flags. Also, compiling from source isn't the only purpose of Gentoo. However, I still recommend using the minimal disk.
As for ~arch, I run ~amd64, and although once in a while something unstable is released into it, it is not too hard to find a fix, especially with the help of these forums. I don't recommend ~arch unless you know what you are doing and have the extra time for figuring things out when something goes wrong.
Hope that helps.
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GNUtoo
Veteran
Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 1919
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| Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:25 am Post subject: Re: Nothing seems to compare to Gentoo |
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| Quote: | | First off, I prefer the KDE desktop, mainly because I think it looks more Windows Like ( I know I know, but I like the XP feel to things) |
have you tryed XPDE?
mabe some look can also change the desktop apearence mabe you'll find things there http://www.kde-look.org/
| Quote: | And also because I like Kdevelop ( I do alot of C and C++ coding and like that particualar IDE)
I use to use Gnome, but it seemed it was always unstable as well, and I never found a Good IDE for it |
do you know that you can run kde program on gnome and gnome programs on kde?
just emerge them(mabe you need to look at the use flags such as gnome kde gtk2...but it works well).
| Quote: | | Anyways, I left Gentoo and went through Fedora, then Mepis, then ArchLinux, then PCLinuxOS, and now I'm sad to say I'm writting this on Kubuntu. The thing that has left me feeling a longing for Gentoo is the fact that my Gentoo install always semeed to run so much faster. These distro's that I've used have a pre built kernel and tons of modules running that I odn't even need. I prefer to not use modules anyways, if I need somthing for the most part, I like to just build it into the kernel. |
me too
i tryed knoppix before and it was a lot slower...
i also tryed windows recently and it is so slow!!!(on a faster computer)
but that's important because i have a slow computer(gentoo has a lot more advantages that just that)
| Quote: | | I hear running an entirely ~x86 system would hurt me, |
avoid choosing experimental kernel(not only ~ but GIT or not yet relased ones)
and i reinstalled recently and i found that it's more stable
| Quote: | and also, has the time it takes before something goes 'stable' decreased any? Or will it still be about four months before the newest KDE version goes stable?
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that depends on bugs
if i remember well it is a certain amount of time without bug
| Quote: | | I really want to figure out how to use Gentoo, and stay as up to date as possible. |
you need a fast computer that can compile things... |
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Headrush
Watchman
Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 5597
Location: Bizarro World
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| Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:46 am Post subject: |
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Another tip which is common for Gentoo users: Don't get so caught up in versions numbers.
Everyone always says I needed versions X, which is some package 1.2X, but I have trouble believing this for the majority of users.
In the case of KDE, Gentoo usually has it in portage a day or two after release from kde.org. It will be initially masked ~arch, but a few entries in /etc/portage/package.keywords and you're all set. (Or just unmask all KDE versions, since I find them all incredibly stable anyways. Leave the rest of your system stable) |
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mmiller0521
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:50 am Post subject: |
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Well I believe I'll give it a shot again today. If I keep my system stable, can someone show me what I need to do to have the newest KDE though?
Thanks! |
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omp
Retired Dev
Joined: 10 Sep 2005
Posts: 1018
Location: Glendale, California
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| Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| mmiller0521 wrote: | | If I keep my system stable, can someone show me what I need to do to have the newest KDE though? |
kde-meta-3.5.2 is in stable and is rather new. If you really want kde-meta-3.5.3, all you have to do is put entries for it and it's dependencies in /etc/portage/package.keywords
You can find more information in the Gentoo Handbook.
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mmiller0521
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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I guess I can go with stable for now and see if it takes long to get the newer KDE into stable.
I am wondering if someone could tell me if its ok to use the -arts flag and use alsa instead. Or do I need arts still for KDE.
Thanks |
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GNUtoo
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Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 1919
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:51 am Post subject: |
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| mmiller0521 wrote: | I guess I can go with stable for now and see if it takes long to get the newer KDE into stable.
I am wondering if someone could tell me if its ok to use the -arts flag and use alsa instead. Or do I need arts still for KDE.
Thanks |
i think so
personaly i use alsa in kde
mabe the problem with alsa will be that you can't play a lot of things simultaneously
but who will play 2 song simultaneously ??? |
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mmiller0521
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:01 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the answers, I am now emerging kde-meta
This does mean that I will be using split packages right? And later when I find something \I dont want, say all the KDE games, I can just unmerge that package?
Also, I noticed there was no pentium4 stage 3 tarbarll, is that the i686 now? |
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GNUtoo
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Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 1919
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:07 am Post subject: |
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| mmiller0521 wrote: | Thanks for the answers, I am now emerging kde-meta
This does mean that I will be using split packages right? And later when I find something \I dont want, say all the KDE games, I can just unmerge that package?
Also, I noticed there was no pentium4 stage 3 tarbarll, is that the i686 now? |
yes but kde is also splited in part such as kdebase kdenetwork
so you can emerge kdebase-meta or kdenetwork-meta |
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phsdv
Guru
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 372
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| mmiller0521 wrote: | | I am wondering if someone could tell me if its ok to use the -arts flag and use alsa instead. Or do I need arts still for KDE |
I am running kde with this in my make.conf: | Code: | | USE="-kde -qt -arts kdeenablefinal ... |
And I am using also for sound. Although I must say that I have mpd running on my other computer to listen to music. |
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mmiller0521
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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Is there an easy way to put all of the KDE things into package.keywords so I can stay up to date with it? Or should I be using the svn split ebuilds... and if so.. what are those?
Thanks |
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bec
Apprentice
Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 220
Location: Cali - Colombia
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moumou
n00b
Joined: 01 Apr 2006
Posts: 12
Location: Paris, France
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| Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 4:51 am Post subject: |
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| Philantrop wrote: |
So I do and will always use "~ARCH" as I can cope with the pain and I recommend running ~ARCH to those people of whom I know they are either programmers, masochists or simply skilled Linux (yes, I still call it "Linux", not "GNU/Linux", RMS) users. |
How would you define "skilled Linux user" ? I'm considering switching, but I don't know if I will be able to handle the possible problems I may encounter.
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mmiller0521
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Philantrop wrote: | I've been running entirely on ~x86 for years now. About once a year it really hurts badly and I panic for a short while (no, not only on my birthday ).
About twice a year it hurts (but not badly) and I feel like hunting down some Gentoo devs.
Sometimes (> two times per year) I feel like "what did they think?!" (like very recently when they decided nvidia-glx-8762 is incompatible with X.org X11 7.1 which works perfectly fine for me).
So I do and will always use "~ARCH" as I can cope with the pain and I recommend running ~ARCH to those people of whom I know they are either programmers, masochists or simply skilled Linux (yes, I still call it "Linux", not "GNU/Linux", RMS) users.
As for KDE I'm running the KDE SVN split ebuilds. That way, I'm always up to date.
And I'm using about 18 overlays that help me being up to date and on the edge (of my chair and the nervous breakdown ) all the time.
So I'd say, Mitch, go for it. Gentoo is my addiction and you should let it become yours, too. |
Can you tell me what the KDE SVN split ebuilds are? Also, if I go ~x86 and get tired of to many problems, how hard is it to go back? Also, is it just better to run some ~x86 and some not? Or do you honestly use soley ~arch?
I want the latest, but I dont want alot of pain. If there is a bug in the ~arch, does it normally take long before its fixed?
thanks,
Mitch |
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Philantrop
Retired Dev
Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 1130
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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The KDE SVN split ebuilds can be used to install the latest KDE 3.5.x from the KDE subversion repository. That's as up-to-date as it gets - and as probable to break as it gets. :-)
If you really, truly want to be on the bleeding edge of KDE3 you might want to try them but it doesn't really make sense now that KDE4 is being worked on.
About going back to x86: You can always change your ACCEPT_KEYWORDS back but you should take care not to downgrade the actual packages but to package.keyword them. (Or at least all packages from the toolchain or your system will break.) This is the easiest way. Downgrading all packages can be extremely painful so I wouldn't recommend that.
The recommended way is to run x86 and package.keyword to ~x86 those packages you want to run the latest version of. I honestly only use ~x86. Plus lots of experimental stuff. It's just the way I like it. :-)
Running ~x86 can be painful at times but usually not too much. Bugs usually get fixed fastly both in x86 and ~x86.
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mmiller0521
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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Ok thanks for the information, I wont worry about subversion, I'll just go ~x86, do I put that in Use flags, or do I just put a like in make.conf that reads
ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="~x86"
Also, do I use x86 in USE flags at all? And is there still gtk and gtk2 or just one of those?
Thanks for all your help
Mitch |
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Philantrop
Retired Dev
Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 1130
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, edit make.conf to include | Code: | | ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="~x86" |
You don't put "x86" or "~x86" into your USE flags. ACCEPT_KEYWORDS does that for you.
There are still both the "gtk" and "gtk2" USE flags. To find out about the other current USE flags, I suggest emerging app-portage/ufed which is a good USE flag editor that shows you the flags' descriptions as well.
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geniux
Veteran
Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 1400
Location: /home
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| Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| mmiller0521 wrote: | Ok thanks for the information, I wont worry about subversion, I'll just go ~x86, do I put that in Use flags, or do I just put a like in make.conf that reads
ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="~x86"
Also, do I use x86 in USE flags at all? And is there still gtk and gtk2 or just one of those?
Thanks for all your help
Mitch |
If you want your whole system to run as ~x86 then put ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="~x86" into your /etc/make.conf
No x86 USE flag, there's still gtk and gtk2 I have them both set just in case
Edit:
Heh, way to late. Blame my bladder
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Last edited by geniux on Fri Jul 28, 2006 8:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Phenax
l33t
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 972
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| Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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I've been using ~amd64 for a couple of months. Runs great, no problems as of yet.
One thing you should note is at least sync and update world once a week. If you don't, you will likely be flooded with updates. Just my two cents.
Also, try using a more lightweight window manager like XFCE4 (Still pretty heavy), Fluxbox, or Openbox. You can get a high level of configuration with them, and you can mix and match.
My buddy uses Openbox with KDE to replace kdewin. It looks nice and all. |
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phish
n00b
Joined: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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I've been using gentoo for around 5 years now. A few years ago I got tired of borking my computer while tinkering in places I really didn't think i needed to tinker. I downloaded every distro I could think of, slackware suse debian (k)ubuntu mandriva etc. Even BSD.
nothing lasted on my system for more than a few hours.
Gentoo is like os crack. I need it. I can't function without it.
I need to tinker. |
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