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guero61
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Joined: 14 Oct 2002
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 Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 3:15 am Post subject: |
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| cchapman wrote: | do any of you work for a fortune 500 company?
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I am a Store System Administrator for Wal-Mart, Inc. If they were to move away from Unix and to Gentoo, I fully believe they would support a system in which they had multiple reference servers churning out proper binaries for distribution to the 3500+ machines that serve each individual store. That suffice for Fortune 500? |
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cchapman
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Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 440
Location: Fremont, NE
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 11:32 am Post subject: |
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Ask them then...
THe company I work would not do that...
I already asked.. |
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idoneus
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Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 243
Location: Graz, Austria
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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Well to throw in my .02:
To reinstall a gentoo system faster then building it from scratch already a couple of ideas have been mentioned, each perfect for certain needs.
But if we are thinking about a binary install, I guess the GRP will be a great leap into that direction, cause if all real big compilation tasks will be availiable as binaries, I don't see the problem in setting a gentoo system up real fast starting from stage 3.
The time small packages take to install is not what slows down the installation process.
Concerning the idea about the binary server. Is there no server in your company that has enough idle cycles? Like a printer server or something? All you would have to do is give him a nice new big harddrive and copy the binaries onto it, compiling it only once. You could even mount that drive locally on the system compiling everything for the firstime.
Then when you need to reinstall, for whatever reason, you would just install the packages from that server. Thus you would not really need a new server and in a small enviroment that can not come up with a dedicated server for this task that solution could be usefull.
Although some old computer would actually do for the "making reference binaries" server, and those should be availiable in large numbers in a real big company. |
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bsolar
Bodhisattva
Joined: 12 Jan 2003
Posts: 2764
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| cchapman wrote: | Ask them then...
THe company I work would not do that...
I already asked.. |
I am sorry but I don't understand what's the problem with Gentoo since Gentoo already provides a solution, and in the near future it should provide binary packages support too (adding another way to who prefers) so what you'd like to see?
I mean, if you have some propositive thoughts I'm sure the developers would be interested in hearing them.
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Orange
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Joined: 11 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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I just don't understand why someone would want Gentoo binaries... isn't the whole point of Gentoo to compile itself without binaries so it is tailored to your machine? And honestly if a server did crash in the rare chance, wouldn't they have a backup server or something so that the corporation could still be able to function while the primary servery is recompiled?
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notkevin
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Joined: 07 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| cchapman wrote: | do any of you work for a fortune 500 company?
If not you have no clue what I am talking about |
I don't see what working for a fortune 500 company has to do with anything? I don't know of any company, no matter how large or how small, that wants to waste money. In fact, I would think it would be harder to do in a smaller company because they are less likely to have the money/people/resources to spend. |
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cchapman
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Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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Location: Fremont, NE
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Because they try to save money whenever possible. |
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notkevin
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Joined: 07 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| cchapman wrote: | | Because they try to save money whenever possible. |
hehe who doesn't? Even I (and I am not a fortune 500 company) try to save money whenever possible  |
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cchapman
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| So why am I so bad for wanting binaries. |
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bsolar
Bodhisattva
Joined: 12 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| cchapman wrote: | | So why am I so bad for wanting binaries. |
You are not bad. (well, maybe not so much...  ) but as I pointed out more times, there should be official support for binary packages with the 1.4final in the form of the Gentoo Reference Platform, and I'm sure the support for that will grow if there is actual need.
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guero61
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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It's not a bad idea; I gave you an alternative idea for incorporating binaries into corporate strata.
As far as asiking Wal-Mart to, I don't need to -- Like I said, they already have farms of reference machines already pumping out installation tapes and not doing any valid production work. If they were to move to such an architecture, the necessary extra machines are already in place. |
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Hypnos
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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Perhaps we can all agree to wait until GRP comes out, and see a) how it is received and b) how Gentoo's focus (developer and user) shifts, if at all.
My hope is that GRP is extremely well-received, esp. in corporate environments and by n00b users; and, that the binary platform remains of _secondary_ importance to the source platform, while its contents are _derivative_ from the source platform.
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gsfgf
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Joined: 08 May 2002
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Orange wrote: | | I just don't understand why someone would want Gentoo binaries... isn't the whole point of Gentoo to compile itself without binaries so it is tailored to your machine? And honestly if a server did crash in the rare chance, wouldn't they have a backup server or something so that the corporation could still be able to function while the primary servery is recompiled? |
Many machines can't have 3 days of downntime while installing. Those machines nee binaries. W/ gentoo you can still get portage, init, and a custom system w/ binaries. other systms can't. The rest of us can still build form scratch andtake advantage of USE, but if that's not possible, i'd still much prefer gentoo binaries to redhat or something.
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Radiouk
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Joined: 19 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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I would like to see a binary version of gentoo  Why not have a binary version and a version you can compile  The day they bring out a binary version of gentoo- will be the day I dump Redhat for ever!!! I'm sick of Redhat linux, but I don't think I could manage to compile gentoo just yet.
Pls someone make a binary version of gentoo
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idoneus
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Joined: 26 Mar 2003
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Location: Graz, Austria
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Radiouk wrote: | | The day they bring out a binary version of gentoo- will be the day I dump Redhat for ever!!! I'm sick of Redhat linux, but I don't think I could manage to compile gentoo just yet. |
Well except for time saving a gentoo binary install would not differ (i guess) from a source based install so if you don't manage to compile gentoo you wouldn't be able to install gentoo from binaries.
However I do think that the GRP is a great idea, not for me, but for a lot of people who want a quick and easy install.
But on the other hand who wouldn't want to spend days solving out strange problems that occurd during some compilation?  |
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cchapman
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2003 10:38 am Post subject: |
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[quote="But on the other hand who wouldn't want to spend days solving out strange problems that occurd during some compilation? [/quote]
You could use a preset of use flags known not to work with the compilation ...php dies with java and qt in the use flags when running that package explicitily turn those off no matter what... the developers could save time with |
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kraylus
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Joined: 07 Jun 2002
Posts: 648
Location: ft.worth.tx
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2003 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Orange wrote: | | I just don't understand why someone would want Gentoo binaries... isn't the whole point of Gentoo to compile itself without binaries so it is tailored to your machine? And honestly if a server did crash in the rare chance, wouldn't they have a backup server or something so that the corporation could still be able to function while the primary servery is recompiled? |
goddamnit, man! did you not read all previous posts, including mine?!
we dont care about the fsckin optimisations. we're not in it for that!!! gentoo is NOT all about optimisations. it's all about the portage!!!!!!!!
christ, open your eyes! read towards the bottom of the second page on this thread. read both my posts. i don't like repeating myself.
ryan
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bsolar
Bodhisattva
Joined: 12 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2003 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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Moved (maybe a bit late... ) from Off The Wall.
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ak
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Joined: 04 Apr 2003
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2003 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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Please correct me if I am wrong in assuming the following:
I can create a binary package with | Code: | | emerge -b <package> |
It will be placed in /usr/portage/packages dir by default.
Now, if I copy packages dir to another computer, that is 100% identical to the one the packages are compiled on, and use:
| Code: | | emerge -K <package> |
I will have a binary installation on the second machine.
My question is: if I decide to uninstall a package that was initially emerged from a binary, all I will have to do is
| Code: | | emerge unmerge <package> |
, correct? Are dependencies updated as with source install, or there is a catch? In other words, am I loosing anything on the 100% identical computers by doing binary install on the second one instead of doing source install?
Best Regards,
ak |
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idoneus
Apprentice
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 243
Location: Graz, Austria
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2003 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| cchapman wrote: | | php dies with java and qt in the use flags when running that package explicitily turn those off no matter what |
well i shall try that, sounds nice 
ak: as far as i know the install from a binary package should be 100% identical to the install from source, if you've got the same make.conf file.
Your computers don't have to be identical just similar. |
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txemi
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mcking
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Joined: 04 Aug 2002
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Location: Baghdad, Iraq
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2003 1:34 am Post subject: A simple method... |
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pick a base set of CFLAGS known to work on most systems (such as '-O3 -fomit-frame-pointer -pipe' which most people seem to use), a set of USE flags that are most popular, and a set of popular CPU types ('pentium3|athlon|athlon-xp') and create a tree of prebuilt binary packages. As programs get unmasked into 'stable', the ebuild maintainer and a set of trusted volunteers uploads the prebuilt .tar.bz2 files onto a server.
If the -b option is given to emerge, it checks to see if there is a match for CFLAGS, USE options and CPU type. If there is a match, then download the binary package and emerge it, if not then build normally.
Just a suggestion.
I even thought of a separate 'meta distro' called "GenThree" that simply wraps Gentoo in this manner. Install with default compiler options that are reasonable, yet always allow the user to "get under the hood" and build from source themselves. Make -b the default, and add a --source option. |
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Hypnos
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Joined: 18 Jul 2002
Posts: 2889
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2003 3:00 am Post subject: Re: A simple method... |
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| mcking wrote: | | pick a base set of CFLAGS known to work on most systems (such as '-O3 -fomit-frame-pointer -pipe' which most people seem to use), a set of USE flags that are most popular, and a set of popular CPU types ('pentium3|athlon|athlon-xp') and create a tree of prebuilt binary packages. As programs get unmasked into 'stable', the ebuild maintainer and a set of trusted volunteers uploads the prebuilt .tar.bz2 files onto a server. |
That's exactly what I suggested a page back.
Your ideas of conditional build from source and elective build from source are pretty interesting.
One technical concern: there are _so many_ USE flags, I wonder if it would be feasible to store all the binaries for a large subset of the "reasonable" combinations. But I guess the binary distros do something similar anyways ...
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splooge
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Joined: 30 Aug 2002
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2003 3:25 am Post subject: |
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Gah I hate to fan the flames..
Gentoo can be a binary distribution if you want it to be. You just need to make it one. The tools are already all there in portage, as already explained earlier in this thread.
Boy this thread is old. |
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Hypnos
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Joined: 18 Jul 2002
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2003 3:39 am Post subject: |
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| splooge wrote: | | Gentoo can be a binary distribution if you want it to be. You just need to make it one. The tools are already all there in portage, as already explained earlier in this thread. |
Why some of us find the prospect of a pre-built binary Gentoo interesting has already been discussed.
I for one just use the default CFLAGS, so a binary distro with the benefits of Portage could be quite cool; if something needs to be compiled because of my choice of USE flags, so be it.
| splooge wrote: | | Boy this thread is old. |
Old threads are revered in some cultures.
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