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ufoderek
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Joined: 04 Mar 2006
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Location: Taiwan
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 Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 2:54 am Post subject: After tried Ubuntu 6.06 |
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I've installed Ubuntu 6.06 on my computer and it is nearly perfect. The programs on Ubuntu runs faster and smoother then my Gentoo. Don't tell me that it's my CFLAGS' problem. I've tried very basic CFLAGS like O2, Os, -march and LDFLAGS, gcc3.x, gcc4...., but nomatter how I try, Ubuntu is FASTER. Can anyone tell me why? I love Gentoo, I love emerge, I love to control everything on my computer, but I hate that there's something faster but I can't do it.
What makes Ubuntu fast? Special CFLAGS or programs? Give me an answer, please.
PS: Sorry for my poor English.
PS2: I hope someone who HAVE TRIED Ubuntu 6.06 and his/her Gentoo is faster then Ubuntu 6.06 can tell me. |
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Gergan Penkov
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:02 am Post subject: |
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Most probably it is harddisk fragmentation. Was the gentoo installation always slow or began gradually to slow down?
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ufoderek
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Joined: 04 Mar 2006
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Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 5:34 am Post subject: |
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| I believe it is not. My Gentoo installation is new. |
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runningwithscissors
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 5:48 am Post subject: |
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I haven't ever used Ubuntu, but lots of people on these forums have. And they do not find a speed difference as great as you are suggesting either way.
Your system can produce bloat and slow down if you use insane CFLAGS. Keep it simple. -O2, -march and -pipe should be enough. |
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Paapaa
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Joined: 14 Aug 2005
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Location: Finland
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 8:55 am Post subject: |
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Ok, what does "faster" mean?
1. Faster boot time?
2. Programs start faster?
3. Windows move faster/smoother?
4. Processor finishes tasks faster?
etc.
You have to be more specific. |
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Iced-Tux
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Joined: 14 Apr 2004
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Location: Germany, Cologne
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 9:03 am Post subject: |
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When you say runs smoother & faster you probably mean in X?
Perhaps you haven't configured your graka right? In my experience Ubuntu is as fast/slow as my gentoo  I have two machines, which are nearly the same only difference one has 2GB RAM one only 512MB* but BOTH run smooth, the startup differneces can be explained by the differnce in RAM. As for that .... not a great deal different in Speed/Smoothness.
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ufoderek
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 9:47 am Post subject: |
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"Faster" means programs(eg: X, gdm, firefox) start faster.
PS: I have tried very simple CFLAGS like "-march=pentium4 O2 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer" or "-march=pentium4 Os -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer". But the result is the same.
PS2: What CFLAGS Ubuntu use? |
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SirYes
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Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 282
Location: Lodz, Poland
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 9:59 am Post subject: |
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It's not only CFLAGS. It's also LDFLAGS="-Wl,-O1" (see this topic).
Don't know if they use prelinking as well.
Using PCLinuxOS occasionally I sometimes have a similar feeling that some programs start faster. So it's not only Ubuntu's thing.
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Varean
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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From what I know, if you were using a different Window Manager than DE(Say fluxbox w/KDE apps) starting a KDE application requires initializing KDE's services, perhaps Ubuntu is fater becuase the entire OS is pretty much intertwined with Gnome.
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Etal
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Posts: 1931
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| ufoderek wrote: | "Faster" means programs(eg: X, gdm, firefox) start faster.
PS: I have tried very simple CFLAGS like "-march=pentium4 O2 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer" or "-march=pentium4 Os -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer". But the result is the same.
PS2: What CFLAGS Ubuntu use? |
 Did you copy that wrong or are you missing the "-" in -O2/-Os?
If so, you're running with no optimizations!!!
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vipernicus
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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KDE Desktop set up like this and prelinked will be faster than any Ubuntu setup:
| Code: | Portage 2.1.1_pre5-r1 (!../usr/local/overlays/emission/profiles/default-linux/x86/emission-3.0, gcc-4.1.1/vanilla, glibc-2.4.90.20060805-r1, 2.6.18-rc4-viper1 i686)
=================================================================
System uname: 2.6.18-rc4-viper1 i686 AMD Athlon(tm) XP 2800+
Gentoo Base System version 1.12.4
Last Sync: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 11:30:06 +0000
ccache version 2.4 [enabled]
app-admin/eselect-compiler: 2.0.0_rc2-r1
dev-lang/python: 2.4.3-r1
dev-python/pycrypto: 2.0.1-r5
dev-util/ccache: 2.4-r2
dev-util/confcache: 0.4.2-r1
sys-apps/sandbox: 1.2.18.1
sys-devel/autoconf: 2.13, 2.60
sys-devel/automake: 1.4_p6, 1.5, 1.6.3, 1.7.9-r1, 1.8.5-r3, 1.9.6-r2
sys-devel/binutils: 2.17.50.0.3
sys-devel/gcc-config: 1.3.13-r3
sys-devel/libtool: 1.5.22
virtual/os-headers: 2.6.17
ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="x86 ~x86"
AUTOCLEAN="yes"
CBUILD="i686-pc-linux-gnu"
CFLAGS="-O2 -march=athlon-xp -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer -fno-ident"
CHOST="i686-pc-linux-gnu"
CONFIG_PROTECT="/etc /usr/kde/3.5/env /usr/kde/3.5/share/config /usr/kde/3.5/shutdown /usr/share/X11/xkb /usr/share/config"
CONFIG_PROTECT_MASK="/etc/env.d /etc/eselect/compiler /etc/gconf /etc/revdep-rebuild /etc/terminfo"
CXXFLAGS="-O2 -march=athlon-xp -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer -fno-ident -fvisibility-inlines-hidden -fno-enforce-eh-specs"
DISTDIR="/usr/portage/distfiles"
FEATURES="autoconfig ccache distlocks metadata-transfer parallel-fetch sandbox sfperms strict"
GENTOO_MIRRORS="http://distfiles.gentoo.org http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/gentoo"
LDFLAGS="-Wl,-O1 -Wl,--as-needed -Wl,--hash-style=gnu"
LINGUAS=""
MAKEOPTS="-j2"
PKGDIR="/usr/portage/packages"
PORTAGE_RSYNC_OPTS="--recursive --links --safe-links --perms --times --compress --force --whole-file --delete --delete-after --stats --timeout=180 --exclude='/distfiles' --exclude='/local' --exclude='/packages'"
PORTAGE_TMPDIR="/var/tmp"
PORTDIR="/usr/portage"
PORTDIR_OVERLAY="/usr/local/overlays/emission /usr/local/portage /usr/local/overlays/toolchain_overlay /usr/local/overlays/xgl-coffee /usr/local/overlays/vmware"
SYNC="rsync://rsync.gentoo.org/gentoo-portage"
USE="x86 3dnow 3dnowext X alsa apm arts avi berkdb bitmap-fonts bzip2 cddb cli crypt cups dlloader dri elibc_glibc emboss encode foomaticdb fortran gdbm gif glibc-omitfp gpm gtk2 hal imlib input_devices_evdev input_devices_keyboard input_devices_mouse insecure-savers isdnlog jpeg kde kdeenablefinal kdehiddenvisibility kernel_linux libg++ libwww lm_sensors mad mikmod mmx motif mp3 mpeg ncurses nptl nptlonly offensive ogg opengl oss pam pcre pdflib perl pertty pic png pppd python qt qt3 quicktime rdesktop readline reflection sdl session spell spl sse ssl svg tcpd truetype truetype-fonts type1-fonts udev unicode userland_GNU video_cards_radeon video_cards_vesa vorbis xcomposite xine xml xorg xv zlib"
Unset: CTARGET, EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS, INSTALL_MASK, LANG, LC_ALL, PORTAGE_RSYNC_EXTRA_OPTS |
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ufoderek
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Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 12
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 3:23 am Post subject: |
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1. Here's my CFLAGS: "-march=pentium4 -O2 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer" or "-march=pentium4 -Os -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer". I forgot to type "-" before O. = =
2. I didn't emerge any kde-based packages(but while I emerge system, portage emerges qt). I always use gnome.
3. Here's my LDFLAGS: "-Wl,-O1 -Wl,--sort-common"
4. I have prelink installed and will type 'prelink -amR' after emerge -uD world. |
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palatin
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Posts: 113
Location: Paris
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 6:58 am Post subject: |
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It's perhaps only a matter of font cache. It halved the launch time of some programs for me :
as root and then as user.
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Drac
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Posts: 36
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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My XGL/KDE installation with some pretty agressive cflags and LDFLAGS as well as prelinking is noticeably faster then Ubuntu on the same machine.
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Paapaa
l33t
Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 955
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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Optimilizations usually matter almost nothing with most applications - O2, O3, Os... (Well, too agressive oplimitalions make the code unstable and slow, but anyway).
Most slowness comes from HD activity which is the result of totally different configuration - not CFLAGS. Like palatin wrote, the number of fonts might have a big impact on loading times. |
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vipernicus
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Paapaa wrote: | Optimilizations usually matter almost nothing with most applications - O2, O3, Os... (Well, too agressive oplimitalions make the code unstable and slow, but anyway).
Most slowness comes from HD activity which is the result of totally different configuration - not CFLAGS. Like palatin wrote, the number of fonts might have a big impact on loading times. |
Very true, the smaller the code, the faster the load time. Make small code + faster linking = more interactive gui.
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filterpunk
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Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 1:01 am Post subject: |
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Ubuntu suits people who don't get hung up on control over their system, how it runs, and what's installed. Gentoo is. End of story.
You think Ubuntu is perfect and fast, that's great for you... but why is this something you felt the need to post here? Why not post it over in their forums, since they'd probably get a warm fuzzy feeling or whatever over it?
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Paapaa
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 8:05 am Post subject: |
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| filterpunk wrote: | | Ubuntu suits people who don't get hung up on control over their system, how it runs, and what's installed. Gentoo is. End of story. |
What crap is this? OP wanted to know why his Ubuntu seems to be faster than Gentoo. This has nothing to do with the fact that Gentoo is a control freak distro and Ubuntu is a It-Just-Works distro. If Ubuntu is constantly faster than Gentoo it would be nice to know why.
Last edited by Paapaa on Fri Aug 18, 2006 11:44 am; edited 1 time in total |
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slycordinator
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Location: Korea
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 8:22 am Post subject: |
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| filterpunk wrote: | Ubuntu suits people who don't get hung up on control over their system, how it runs, and what's installed. Gentoo is. End of story.
You think Ubuntu is perfect and fast, that's great for you... but why is this something you felt the need to post here? Why not post it over in their forums, since they'd probably get a warm fuzzy feeling or whatever over it? |
Ummm... He said he loved gentoo, emerge, and having control but he just wanted to find out why he saw ubuntu seeming like it was faster. One would imagine that he would love gentoo EVEN MORE if he figured out how to make it faster. So far he has a gentoo install that he has lots of control over but is "medium-speed" and he wants to figure out how to increase the speed to "fast."
Also, why would his post be appropriate in their forums? Wouldn't it be "out of place" to post saying "How do I make gentoo faster?" |
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filterpunk
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Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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I have to apologize folks. I think I was a little too tired when I originally looked at this and misread the whole thing as yet another of those "screw gentoo, distro x is way better!" posts.
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tabanus
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Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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I know basically nothing about Ubuntu, and don't use Gnome, but, a few things that have bitten me over the years:
Not sure if this also affects Gnome but:
| The KDE Configuration HOWTO wrote: | Make sure your /etc/hosts file is correct:
* If you have a static IP address, make sure your FQDN and hostname are mentioned on that line, like 192.168.0.10 tux.mydomain tux
* If you have a dynamic IP address or you do not have any additional interfaces at all, add your hostname after the localhost statement, like 127.0.0.1 localhost tux
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Have you configured your kernel to be pre-emptible?
| Code: | *Processor type and features --->
Preemption Model (Preemptible Kernel (Low-Latency Desktop)) ---> |
Do you have DMA properly enabled, what about swap file usage, video driver, X configuration? Do you have the same number of daemons running in Ubuntu as Gentoo? There are so many things that affect performance, that I doubt you will ever get that Ah-ha moment where your Gentoo is suddenly faster than your Ubuntu.
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Dralnu
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Posts: 1919
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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It could be a hardware issue, being as it might not be configured properly.
btw, thanks for the font-cache bit. I'm going to look into that myself 
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batistuta
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Location: Aachen
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:44 am Post subject: |
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As I read the subject, I have to say that I initally thought like filterpunk: another bitching post. ufoderek, please choose a more meaningfull subject next time. Something like "My gentoo seems to run slow". Or "My Gentoo runs slower than Ubuntu?" or something like that.
Things to check:
- Are you running preemptive kernel?
- If you care about responsiveness, check ck-sources (con Kolivas scheduler for workstation)
- Is DMA enabled?
- Proper chipset support and stuff in the kernel
- Correct video card configuration
- Font chache
Also keep in mind that Firefox is a gtk app. So if you run KDE, you can expect it to start slower than in gnome.
If I were you, I'd start by measuring disk throughput, running some benchmarks, or something that might allow you to find the bottleneck.
Since Gentoo is fully configurable, in theory Gentoo could never be slower than Ubuntu... |
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ufoderek
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Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 12
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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1. I've said that my English is poor.  (or can I use Chinese?)
2. I've checked DMA, preemptive kernel, font cache...etc, and the only one thing I'm not sure is kernel configuration, but how to know whether my configuration is correct or not? (I compile the kernel by myself)
3. I use pure gnome, that means I didn't use any qt applications.
4. My hardwares:
CPU: Pentium4 1.7 GHz (Willamette)
Chipset: Intel i845
RAM: 512MB SDRAM (PC133)
HD: WD 80GB (IDE, 8 MB cache)
Intel 82801BA/BAM AC'97 Audio Controller / USB
Geforce MX 400 (AGP 4X) |
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