| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
jellommmmmm
n00b
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 11
|
 Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 3:08 pm Post subject: Thinking Ubuntu 6.10 x64? Think again! |
 |
|
I recently installed Ubuntu 6.10 X64 on my computer to see how it compares to Gentoo. Here is a brief comparison:
My Nvidia 6200 video card was not detected properly in Ubuntu.
Nvidia closed source drivers are unavailable for x64 6.10 on the standard disks.
My LCD monitor was not detected properly and would not adjust to the native resolution.
Wpa Supplicant is not available for x64 off the CD.
These are show stoppers for me. Using the nv driver is unacceptable because it is no longer the year 2001.
wpa_supplicant won't work because a need for custom hardware or the vendor chose not to support it? Works in gentoo.
Here are a couple of nice things I noticed about x64 ubuntu over gentoo:
The package management system is much nicer looking and to use than portage.
My bttv tuner card was detected properly from the start.
Ubuntu will back port patches.
My SCSI scanner and printer were bother correctly configured and identified from the start.
Anyway those were my observations. Personally I think I will switch to Ubuntu within a year.
I no longer have the time to constantly fiddle with gentoo, but losing wpa supplicant looking at 1024 X 768
purdy 3d is too much to lose. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
fangorn
Veteran
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 1886
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
I installed it too.
My main "problem" is that I have to search all the dependencies of my neat little helper scripts I got addicted to. Ubuntu does not provide approx. 20 of them at all, not even the 32 bit versions 
I will also have to compile FVWM myself, ... I dont think you need less time to get a ubuntu installation the way you like it than when setting up gentoo. At least when you left the "just user" level. I cant help myself but getting rid of gnome or kde as soon as I see them 
For wpa_supplicant being not on the install media, AFAIK they claimed that networkmanager now can handle WPA connections (which it doesnt for my BCM4310, but that never worked with anything I tried  )
_________________
Video Encoding scripts collection | Project page |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cotcot
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 77
Location: Belgium
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I have Ubuntu 6.10 in triple boot with XP and Gentoo on AMD64X2.
Ubuntu is OK on my desktop. It recognised my nVidia (NX7300GS) but not the on board LAN. Sound (MCP51) was detected. Gentoo did not recognise LAN and sound. I installed a Realtec and a Sound Blaster PCI to get Gentoo working propoerly. What I did not get working on Ubuntu is Opera 9 and Hugin (with PTStitcher and PTOptimiser working properly). With Gentoo it was emerged in no time.
I agree that Gentoo needs some fiddling. But up till now it always ended with a working application. So after 1.5 year Ubuntu I moved to Gentoo. However I still keep Ubuntu on my desktop as second distro. It is a good distro for people coming in contact with Linux. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nbtux
n00b
Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 10
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 4:18 pm Post subject: PTSticker amd64 |
|
|
Hi cotcot,
how did you obtain a working version of PTStitcher compiled for amd64.
On gentoo wiki http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Panorama_photography_tools is clear PTStitcher isn't in any ebuild, than you must download and install manually. Obviously the downloaded version is 32 bit and the contained sources does not compile on my gentoo amd64.
Can you give me some help to obtain a running version of PTStitcher? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pteppic
l33t
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
Posts: 781
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 4:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| cotcot wrote: | | Gentoo did not recognise LAN and sound. |
Call me old fashioned, but isn't it up to the installer to recognize hardware and build the support into the kernel?
I'm not being, erm, a dick on purpose, just curious. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
slithy
Guru
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Posts: 321
Location: Kansas
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | The package management system is much nicer looking and to use than portage. |
I hope you are talking about the GUI front end for apt and not apt itself. Because I have never used a better package management system better than portage. If you want a GUI front end for portage you could try porthole. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fangorn
Veteran
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 1886
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
I tried installing a system with apt based on a minimal system. Took some time till I realized that installing the gnome desktop does not mean that there would be something as rudimentary as xorg installed. I just wondered why my desktop did not start, till I realized there was no /etc/X11 directory.
So much for dependency resolution in apt
IMHO there are more important things than a graphical installer.
_________________
Video Encoding scripts collection | Project page |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cloim
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 02 Aug 2002
Posts: 99
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
| fangorn wrote: |
IMHO there are more important things than a graphical installer. |
I agree, ... but...
There is a learning curve with any system, and command line systems have a longer curve. Graphical interfaces (except Gnome and KDE) are intuitive, and even when they are not, it is usually possible to figure it out quickly. Yes, some people can do the same thing reading man pages and using command line tools to search out answers. I'm not one of those people,... yet.
Portage is quick to learn. And since I know and understand it well enough at this point, I'm not motivated to bother trying any graphical frontends for it.
I would, however, like to try out Arch linux at some point. One of the things holding me back is aquiring the time to learn the system. And it appears to me to be about as straight-forward and simple as portage.
The comments about "fiddling with gentoo" I can relate to. I even switched to Ubuntu (32bit on a 32bit machine) for a couple weeks because I didn't have time to fix the Gentoo system that I borked.
But even so it isn't, or shouldn't be, a "constant" scenario. And for me, oddly enough, I'm having fewer Gentoo specific issues with ~amd64, updating daily, than I had with x86 updating every 3 to 4 months.
I've only run across two programs that caused issues. Both were quickly resolved on the forums. My main current isssues are driver related on my new comp. And that is a problem on all distros because it's the kernel that needs to advance. Which is ultimately *why I'm updating so frequenty (looking for newer kernels).
YMMV. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
batistuta
Veteran
Joined: 29 Jul 2005
Posts: 1384
Location: Aachen
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| guys, don't compare Ubuntu with Gentoo. They are both great distros, each one taylored for a particular use, type of people, tweaking needs, uptimes, etc. It's like comparing a BMW X5 with an Aston Martin. It doesn't make sense to bring one towards the other one, because they are meant with different goals in mind. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MM23
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 83
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
You know, I've said this many times, but I do not see the performance boost in compiling packages. Though custom use flags are nice, I'd be fine on a binary distro. The problem with every single one that I've tried is this:
They have a terribly lackluster amount of stuff in their repositories compared to portage. I tried Ubuntu for quite a long time (4 month?) and I thought it was decent -- I had very few hardware compatibility problems compared to Gentoo, but roughly half the time I wanted to install something apt-getting it wasn't an option because they have such crappy repositories. I thought about using the Debian repos for a time, but apparently if you do that everything breaks. I can't stand wanting to install something and having to grab the source and the source for all of it's dependencies myself then go through the usual "./configure && make && sudo make install" crap. It's irritating. I will stay with Gentoo until I find a distro with an equal or better offering of applications, libraries, and whatever in their repositories compared to portage.
And elaborating further on my first detail -- I don't really mind being on a source-based distro either. I am blessed with a fast enough computer that a full emerge -uavDN world takes less than 5 hours anyway. Just leave it running overnight, no big deal for me. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
batistuta
Veteran
Joined: 29 Jul 2005
Posts: 1384
Location: Aachen
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
@MM23,
if you add Treviños repositories, Ubuntu will have access to almost all that you need... or at least that was my experience |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
butane317
n00b
Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 55
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
| About the learning curve: you might find this interesting. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
batistuta
Veteran
Joined: 29 Jul 2005
Posts: 1384
Location: Aachen
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
| butane317 wrote: | | About the learning curve: you might find this interesting. |
The article has valid points, but I drastically disagree with others. In particular, I don't agree to what he says that simple is limited. Or that complex (or advaced) is power. I think that complexity often becomes counterproductive, because it overwhealms the user with needless options, making the useful ones invisible.
It is true that a *nix user is motivated, but not because he learned *nix. Rather the other way around: the learned *nix because he is motivated torwards computer stuff.
It is also often assumed that people want or need this power. This is in my experience another big fat missconception: people often don't want to be presented with choices. They want the machine to decide as much as possible for them.
I disagree that Microsoft has slowed down IT. No way. Without microsoft, the world would have splitted with a bigger gap between technical and non-technical people, like rich and poor people. Microsoft filled that gap. The article implies (or so I understand it) that we should have forced people to think more, rather than play at their stupidity level. I dissagree because I think for a lot of people, there are lots of better way to invest their time than in learning computers. And both both Microsoft and Mac helped torwards this. I'm a believer that there is a tool for each problem. And I think that Microsoft, and specially Apple did a very good job in addressing their problem. So did Linux, all Suse, Fedora, Ubuntu, Gentoo, and others. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
slithy
Guru
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Posts: 321
Location: Kansas
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 7:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I'll say that Apple has done a great job creating a quality experience for users that want power and/or simplicity. On the other hand, I would say Microsoft has made a fairly easy to use OS, but the OS itself isn't of the best quality. The technically inclined, who want power, are forced to use the dumbed down OS...and I don't even want to mention the security problems. The only reason it is around is because people don't want to learn something new. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
batistuta
Veteran
Joined: 29 Jul 2005
Posts: 1384
Location: Aachen
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| slithy wrote: | | The only reason it is around is because people don't want to learn something new. |
I would say this is a big factor. Other factors are
- Because it is shove on your face with every new system
- Because of compatibility (both SW and HW)
- Easy of use
But you are right, people don't want to learn something new. I've installed open office on a computer's friend, who just needed a word processor. After one week, she installed her pirated MS Office, because she could find how to add a header and a footer. Her answer was "I don't have the time to figure out how to do it". I've open up the "help" and found the answer in 30 seconds, much less of what took her the office install. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cotcot
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 77
Location: Belgium
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:57 am Post subject: Re: PTSticker amd64 |
|
|
| nbtux wrote: | Hi cotcot,
how did you obtain a working version of PTStitcher compiled for amd64.
On gentoo wiki http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Panorama_photography_tools is clear PTStitcher isn't in any ebuild, than you must download and install manually. Obviously the downloaded version is 32 bit and the contained sources does not compile on my gentoo amd64.
Can you give me some help to obtain a running version of PTStitcher? |
You do not need an ebuild. Just unpack and copy the PTStitcher executable to the map your are pointing at from hugin. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Yukimura
Apprentice
Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 163
Location: Slovenia
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 1:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| slithy wrote: | | The only reason it is around is because people don't want to learn something new. |
Now that's something I agree with! And that's why I listen to silly comments about how Linux is complex. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
batistuta
Veteran
Joined: 29 Jul 2005
Posts: 1384
Location: Aachen
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 11:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Yukimura wrote: | | slithy wrote: | | The only reason it is around is because people don't want to learn something new. |
Now that's something I agree with! And that's why I listen to silly comments about how Linux is complex. |
Linux and its software IS more complex than other OSes like MacOS X and Windows with their respective applications. It has gotten better. It is learnable. It has reached a level that can be adopted by a lot of people. But let's face it: it is more complex and still needs more work.
And the fact that people don't want to learn something new is not something bad or to be ashamed of. Every person has his/her priorities in life. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Yukimura
Apprentice
Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 163
Location: Slovenia
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 11:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
| batistuta wrote: | Linux and its software IS more complex than other OSes like MacOS X and Windows with their respective applications. It has gotten better. It is learnable. It has reached a level that can be adopted by a lot of people. But let's face it: it is more complex and still needs more work.
And the fact that people don't want to learn something new is not something bad or to be ashamed of. Every person has his/her priorities in life. |
Well ok I agree it's more complex but if you use something like Ubuntu/Debian/Gentoo (who all have a grate package manager) and someone has installed it for you, you don't have to learn all that much. Yes it's a change of OS if you're coming from M$ but you can still learn it by the way of using it.
Well just my opinion...
Kind regards
ps:Merry Christmas and a happy new year 2007 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
batistuta
Veteran
Joined: 29 Jul 2005
Posts: 1384
Location: Aachen
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Yukimura wrote: | | Yes it's a change of OS if you're coming from M$ but you can still learn it by the way of using it. |
Yeap, couldn't agree more. I have until now two successfull pilot tests with two non-technical friends of mine with Ubuntu. What I did was installed Ubuntu, added Treviño repositories for importan packages like multimedia codecs, installed beryl, osx icon set, and kiba-dock. The eye-candy was the first thing that gave them the motivation to give it a shot. Ubuntu off-the-shelf is in my opinion not eye-motivating enough with those dark=greish icons
Then my other "trick" was to also install Windows in a dual boot configuration for them. So they have the peace of mind that if something doesn't work or they get stuck, they can boot back. By now, they both use Linux almost exclusively, so I consider this quite positive. I've chosen these two friends because they run mostly Firefox, thunderbird, messenger, Word, and some digital imaging stuff. Switching to Gaim was easy for them. Using openoffice was a bit of bigger step, but they are ok by now. For photo editing they still boot into Windows sometimes, because there are easier/more automatic tools to photostich and edit pics than on Linux. The trick here was to install ntfs-3g on Ubuntu so they can pick up their work from Windows. They also like that I update the system for them remotely. All you need is apt-update and apt-upgrade. That's it... quite simple!
I think it is important to choose the right people for this experiment. For example I didn't convert my mom because she brings work to home and she uses MS Office. Despite of being a great product, Openoffice filters don't work 100% and I don't wanna cause her headaches. But if you choose the right people, it is possible to introduce new member to Linux. My advice is to not push the product to them, but rather give it to them as an option and help them to overcome the fears. Offer them eye-candy to seduce them, and a dual-boot to not inhibit them. And if they don't like it, then accept it and let them use the OS of their choice.
Merry Christmas&happy new year to you Yukimura et all. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
Gentoo on AMD64
