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| Would you like the idea of such a subforum? |
| Yes |
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| No |
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15% |
[ 11 ] |
| I don't care |
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8% |
[ 6 ] |
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| Total Votes : 70 |
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loki99
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Joined: 10 Oct 2003
Posts: 2056
Location: Vienna, €urope
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 Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:11 pm Post subject: [Userreps] New Forum for suggestions and complaints? |
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As I have stated before, we were planning to have a special Forum for collecting suggestions for improvements, complaints, opinions, rants, etc... It should be a place were users can discuss various ideas, have a poll about one thing or the other or simply vent their anger a little (as long as it is still somehow constructive criticism -  ).
The thing is, until now we failed to convince the Forum peeps of the usefulness/necessity of such a Forum. But hope is not lost, since they asked us to make a list of threads that we would consider suited for such a Forum. 
So I thought, the best thing to do would be to start a thread about it, so everyone who is interested can add a link or two to this list.
SteveL suggested two threads already over here so I'll just quote him.
| steveL wrote: | Still, this topic is a good example as are this one and this one.
Anyone else suggest some threads that could go into an `improve gentoo' forum? |
And here are some that I would like to add:
Userrep's Roles
Gentoo Haters/Lovers
Malformed Gentoo RSS feed?
I'M DONE - 4 YEARS of Gentoo is ENOUGH.
FEATURES="candy"
why Gentoo sucks, and why it will ultimately die
So if you find a thread that hasn't been mentioned yet but seems suited please add it to the list.
Thanks and best regards,
loki99
[stuck by MeddySeagoon 27 Sep 2006]
[unstuck by mark_alec 1 Dec 2006]
Last edited by loki99 on Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Q-collective
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Joined: 22 Mar 2004
Posts: 2071
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| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Maybe you can add a poll: "Would you like the idea of such a subforum?" |
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loki99
Advocate
Joined: 10 Oct 2003
Posts: 2056
Location: Vienna, €urope
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| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Q-collective wrote: | | Maybe you can add a poll: "Would you like the idea of such a subforum?" |
Done! |
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tabanus
l33t
Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Posts: 638
Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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I think a subforum is basically a good idea, but failing that, ONE (1) thread for people to bitch about leaving Gentoo, with any dups being properly redirected. That way I can just ignore them all, keep my blood pressure under control, and not risk a ban
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Headrush
Watchman
Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 5597
Location: Bizarro World
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| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| tabanus wrote: | | I think a subforum is basically a good idea, but failing that, ONE (1) thread for people to bitch about leaving Gentoo, with any dups being properly redirected. That way I can just ignore them all, keep my blood pressure under control, and not risk a ban |
Agreed.
I don't know the feasibility of this with phpBB, but if these subforums could be excluded from a "normal" forum search, would be nice.
Nothing worth than looking for a post on a subject only to get a bunch of threads about people bitching about that subject rather than support type threads. |
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steveL
Watchman
Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 5153
Location: The Peanut Gallery
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| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Headrush wrote: | I don't know the feasibility of this with phpBB, but if these subforums could be excluded from a "normal" forum search, would be nice.
Nothing worth than looking for a post on a subject only to get a bunch of threads about people bitching about that subject rather than support type threads. |
Agree, but you're right- that's not gonna work as a `search exclude.'
And anyway, even if someone is searching for support, they're likely to have good ideas about how things might be improved. |
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Headrush
Watchman
Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 5597
Location: Bizarro World
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| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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| steveL wrote: | | Agree, but you're right- that's not gonna work as a `search exclude.' |
I thought I read once OTW was excluded from searches.
| steveL wrote: | | And anyway, even if someone is searching for support, they're likely to have good ideas about how things might be improved. |
But that doesn't help if you are currently trying to fix a problem. If I'm searching for something related to arts, a hundred threads about how it sucks and possible replacements for the future do me any good.
What would be nice is if tips could be linked from the packages.gentoo.org page for each package to a specific wiki type page.
The problem with Tips and techniques threads is they get too long and aren't specific enough. |
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yabbadabbadont
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Joined: 14 Mar 2003
Posts: 4791
Location: 2 exits past crazy
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| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Headrush wrote: | | I thought I read once OTW was excluded from searches. |
I just did some testing. (I'm bored) OTW is excluded from Quick Search and full blown search from the search page, even if "All Available" is selected. I had to explicitly select *only* OTW on the advanced search page for it to be included. It must be part of the customizations that tomk (I think) and the others have done to the forum software. If a new subforum is added as suggested by this topic, then I too would hope that it would be excluded from searches. (except for "view your posts", which currently includes OTW too)
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steveL
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Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 5153
Location: The Peanut Gallery
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| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Headrush wrote: | | I thought I read once OTW was excluded from searches. |
OK, maybe you can exclude stuff from search! I coded a *lot* of stuff for postNuke, including phpBB a few years ago, and I can see excluding a particular forum, so maybe that could well work.
| Quote: | | steveL wrote: | | And anyway, even if someone is searching for support, they're likely to have good ideas about how things might be improved. |
But that doesn't help if you are currently trying to fix a problem. If I'm searching for something related to arts, a hundred threads about how it sucks and possible replacements for the future do me any good. |
Agreed, although I'd hope you'd be searching on a specific error message/ problem rather than just arts on its own. And, given the nature of these fora, someone entering the same problem would likely get a sol'n, or pointer to one, which would help you.
| Quote: | What would be nice is if tips could be linked from the packages.gentoo.org page for each package to a specific wiki type page.
The problem with Tips and techniques threads is they get too long and aren't specific enough. |
Yes, that'd be good maybe that's something to think about in terms of moving the site from just fora and separate wiki and bugzilla to an integrated CMS. Although there's nothing to stop the packages pages linking to a wiki. |
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playfool
l33t
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 688
Location: Ã
rhus, Denmark
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| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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| How would this be different from the feedback forum? |
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yabbadabbadont
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Joined: 14 Mar 2003
Posts: 4791
Location: 2 exits past crazy
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| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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| playfool wrote: | | How would this be different from the feedback forum? |
I thought that the feedback forum was just for commenting about or reporting problems with the forums. As I understand it, this new subforum is more for feedback on Gentoo as a whole and not just the forums.
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| Bones McCracker wrote: | | On the other hand, regex is popular with the ladies. |
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playfool
l33t
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 688
Location: Ã
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| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:31 am Post subject: |
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| yabbadabbadont wrote: | | playfool wrote: | | How would this be different from the feedback forum? |
I thought that the feedback forum was just for commenting about or reporting problems with the forums. As I understand it, this new subforum is more for feedback on Gentoo as a whole and not just the forums. |
So change the description regardless you would have to encourage the relevant developers to join up here and spend time entering into the debates or it would be no good. However such a forum should be really useful in gathering real world use data.
I doubt it would actually end up doing the project much good without developer interaction, it's likely to become two sticky threads "All those who like the GUI installer sucks and must be brutally raped" and "Portage is slow and I'll kill anyone who says otherwise"... maybe if we're optimistic a third one to report broken ebuilds. |
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yabbadabbadont
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Joined: 14 Mar 2003
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Location: 2 exits past crazy
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| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:34 am Post subject: |
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I think the plan is for ideas/problems to get hashed (thrashed) out in the new subforum and then the user reps will collate the results for presentation to the devs.
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| Bones McCracker wrote: | | On the other hand, regex is popular with the ladies. |
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loki99
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Joined: 10 Oct 2003
Posts: 2056
Location: Vienna, €urope
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| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:10 am Post subject: |
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| playfool wrote: | | I doubt it would actually end up doing the project much good without developer interaction, it's likely to become two sticky threads "All those who like the GUI installer sucks and must be brutally raped" and "Portage is slow and I'll kill anyone who says otherwise"... maybe if we're optimistic a third one to report broken ebuilds. |
The focus in the new forum should be on constructive criticism. We will happily foster any rant as long as it has one idea to improve Gentoo. And I think it is long overdue to have a place in here where users can complain without getting flamed automatically, since all of us know that Gentoo can be frustrating once in a while, just like any other OS.
We will welcome any developer who wants to add something to the discussion and we will ask their opinions about things anyhow on IRC or we drop them a mail to get some inside thoughts on topics. If a suggestion comes up that a lot of people seem to agree on, we will pick it for further discusion and will try to refine the idea. I guess this could then be a good time to ask the responsible devs to take a look at it and to drop us a few comments. -----> more discussion
The last stage would be to take this idea to our, yet to be made, wiki where we will try to form a proposal that we could submit to the devs community. |
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yabbadabbadont
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isnogood
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 96
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| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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Is there any way to make a forum where users post submitted bugs and those posts get thrown out or whatever when the issue is resolved?
That way you could see whats going on right quick and not everybody would need to check out every thing at bugzilla.Plus it would save a shitload of time to know what doesn't work before you try to install it
As in: Hmm - I'm gonna catch me a new gentoo install; outch gcc4xx isn't really compiling everything in the stable branch. |
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Headrush
Watchman
Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 5597
Location: Bizarro World
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| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| isnogood wrote: | Is there any way to make a forum where users post submitted bugs and those posts get thrown out or whatever when the issue is resolved?
That way you could see whats going on right quick and not everybody would need to check out every thing at bugzilla.Plus it would save a shitload of time to know what doesn't work before you try to install it
As in: Hmm - I'm gonna catch me a new gentoo install; outch gcc4xx isn't really compiling everything in the stable branch. |
I've always thought about something similar even with the forums, deleting wrong posts, combining identical questions, etc, but anytime you consider modifying/deleting posts you're going to get a lot of free-speech retoric and a big argument.
I guess it all depends on what you think the forums are for. I've always though it was a place for getting support for Gentoo issues, so cleaning up threads would be useful, but to many its a social thing and touching posts of any kind would be wrong. |
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isnogood
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 96
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| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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If you'd try to go into that you would probably be busy 24/7 with 5 guys at it
After all - what is wrong? Something might not work for one guy with a bunch dumbass Flags ( just need to look around a bit for that ) or some setup and be perfectly ok for another one.
That free speech thing is overrated anyway.On forums it only degrades in bitching around but thats beside the point.
If you'd have an overview about bugs in one forum you'd know what to expect before you get going and you wouldn't need to comb thru google,bugzilla,the forums and whatelse.
Deleting resolved bugthreads afterwards is only a question of keeping things easy for the user - otherwise you'd end up with prehistoric stuff on the first page since some ppl can't read dates. |
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cokey
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Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 3355
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| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:21 am Post subject: |
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this forum would be less "i hate gentoo because..." but it would be more like "i'd like to see this from gentoo - can anyone help" and "devs, please can this be done different?"
Then the devs might start coming there and offering reasons, suggestion, alternatives etc to the question or ideas proposed.
I'd also like to see the developers starting threads about how the user would want said package to work - "would you like this feature in portage or is it irrelevant?"
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Headrush
Watchman
Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 5597
Location: Bizarro World
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| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:17 am Post subject: |
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| cokehabit wrote: | | this forum would be less "i hate gentoo because..." but it would be more like "i'd like to see this from gentoo - can anyone help" and "devs, please can this be done different?" |
So would these these threads be moderated so they stay in that vain? (We know how fast threads can deviate) |
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yabbadabbadont
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Joined: 14 Mar 2003
Posts: 4791
Location: 2 exits past crazy
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| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:07 am Post subject: |
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| Headrush wrote: | | cokehabit wrote: | | this forum would be less "i hate gentoo because..." but it would be more like "i'd like to see this from gentoo - can anyone help" and "devs, please can this be done different?" |
So would these these threads be moderated so they stay in that vain? (We know how fast threads can deviate) |
What kind of crack are you smoking!?! Threads never deviate from the original topic! So there! 
OK, sorry about that. I just couldn't help myself. Let the beatings commence. 
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| Bones McCracker wrote: | | On the other hand, regex is popular with the ladies. |
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slonocode
Apprentice
Joined: 03 Jun 2002
Posts: 273
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| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 4:04 am Post subject: |
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| It seems all these posts are already in the same place called Gentoo Chat. |
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cokey
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Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 3355
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| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 5:32 am Post subject: |
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| Headrush wrote: | | cokehabit wrote: | | this forum would be less "i hate gentoo because..." but it would be more like "i'd like to see this from gentoo - can anyone help" and "devs, please can this be done different?" |
So would these these threads be moderated so they stay in that vain? (We know how fast threads can deviate) |
They would be extremely moderated. It is not general gentoo chat and it is not rubbish, it is purely for making Gentoo better for the users and developers by giving them a place to communicate and chat. Any off topic posts or threads will be binned.
The threads in a forum work better than on irc for that because you can come in the middle and read all the posts behind and still be able to comment. The other added bonus is the fact we can have a general consensus via the polls.
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yabbadabbadont
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Joined: 14 Mar 2003
Posts: 4791
Location: 2 exits past crazy
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| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 5:41 am Post subject: |
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| cokehabit wrote: | | Headrush wrote: | | cokehabit wrote: | | this forum would be less "i hate gentoo because..." but it would be more like "i'd like to see this from gentoo - can anyone help" and "devs, please can this be done different?" |
So would these these threads be moderated so they stay in that vain? (We know how fast threads can deviate) |
They would be extremely moderated. It is not general gentoo chat and it is not rubbish, it is purely for making Gentoo better for the users and developers by giving them a place to communicate and chat. Any off topic posts or threads will be binned.
The threads in a forum work better than on irc for that because you can come in the middle and read all the posts behind and still be able to comment. The other added bonus is the fact we can have a general consensus via the polls. |
It is probably not possible, but it would be nice if you could change your vote on the polls. I sometimes change my mind on an issue after reading informative posts that were made after I voted. If it were allowed, I would guess that there would need to be the ability to lock the poll at some point. Kind of like locking a thread now.
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| Bones McCracker wrote: | | On the other hand, regex is popular with the ladies. |
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cokey
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Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 3355
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| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 5:46 am Post subject: |
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| yabbadabbadont wrote: | | cokehabit wrote: | | Headrush wrote: | | cokehabit wrote: | | this forum would be less "i hate gentoo because..." but it would be more like "i'd like to see this from gentoo - can anyone help" and "devs, please can this be done different?" |
So would these these threads be moderated so they stay in that vain? (We know how fast threads can deviate) |
They would be extremely moderated. It is not general gentoo chat and it is not rubbish, it is purely for making Gentoo better for the users and developers by giving them a place to communicate and chat. Any off topic posts or threads will be binned.
The threads in a forum work better than on irc for that because you can come in the middle and read all the posts behind and still be able to comment. The other added bonus is the fact we can have a general consensus via the polls. |
It is probably not possible, but it would be nice if you could change your vote on the polls. I sometimes change my mind on an issue after reading informative posts that were made after I voted. If it were allowed, I would guess that there would need to be the ability to lock the poll at some point. Kind of like locking a thread now. |
I agree completely, there is many a time where i have changed my mind because of an informative post
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