Wacky install idea (on NTFS via knoppix)

[Freakazoid]

got an idea now that ntfs-3g can do writing to ntfs. (likely been that way for a while, I only recently saw it)

the basic idea is installing onto a ext3 image on a NTFS hard drive via knoppix (5.1.1) and booting it via grldr from the xp bootloader. Will likely have to put the kernel somewhere on a NTFS drive. Possibly even turn vmware loose on it for when i'm in windows. (that's a "much later" idea if I get this working)

The question is: would something like that work? Also: would I need to make a initrd for ntfs-3g or would the kernel's drivers be enough until it remounts / ?

[HeissFuss]

Behold the powers of google. http://forum.linux-ntfs.org/viewtopic.php?t=326&sid=ed93420294b861360a2487884b53dc4a

Personally though, I think it'd be a bad idea, even if it worked. If you want windows to be able to read and/or write your files, stick files you want to be shared on a different partition. Also there are windows programs that allow for ext3 rw which you may want to look into. There's another thread on this issue here.

[Freakazoid]

[GNUtoo]

it's a bad idea because of viruses that can alter your linux files and make your linux install unusable

[Freakazoid]

[HeissFuss]

Maybe I just don't get where you're going with this. What's the advantage of using an ext3 image on an ntfs fs? You're planning on booting into linux, right?

[aidanjt]

Too lazy to have a real Linux partition perhaps.

[mikegpitt]

This is possible, and I believe debian now has an install option that is similar to what you just wrote... basically run an *.exe that sets up linux inside windows.

The major disadvantages I can see are:
1) It will be slower than a native Linux install, since linux must now wait for the windows system calls to do any type of disk operation.
2) Windows malware is able to touch your Linux install and also your filesystem is only as stable as NTFS (yikes!).

Advantages:
- Easy to try distros without going through the hassle of re-partitioning, etc... Easy to delete an install

[HeissFuss]

But they already mentioned using vmware, which would be a much better solution for testing than what they propose.

[mikegpitt]

[alex.blackbit]

i believe ntfs-3g is complete, but it does not support file permissions, right?
that could be a problem if you want to try running a operating system with that driver.

[dtjohnst]

You could do what I did too: I have my windows drive NTFS and any drives that I only want Windows to get to (like a Windows Applications and a windows Games partition) NTFS. I then installed ext2ifs on my windows to read/write ext 2/3 drives. My Documents and anything else I want shared goes on an ext 3 drive. ext2ifs also has a built in manager like the Administrative Tools -> Computer Management console in Windows. This lets you change drive letters and whatnot since Computer Management can't read ext 3 (though everything else can). So this way I can have read/write on all the partitions I want to share and just dump anything I want shared onto that, and I can keep Linux from getting to my Windows partitions and Windows from getting to my boot and root Gentoo partitions, keeping one from being able to corrupt the other.

I like the system I've got worked out, and I get to keep the advantages of journalling in Gentoo (which I find much more important than indexing abilities in Windows).

If you want to do it for testing though, just ignore what I said and give it a shot. Let us know how it turns out.

[Freakazoid]

[Freakazoid]

even wacker idea: would it be possible to use the same image file under both real hardware and a Virtual Machine? (something like vmware or virtualbox)
The kernel should sort itself out with the right drivers for everything in "both" systems compiled in.
The only problems I see is xorg and any tools that the VM needs. (like vmware and it's toolbox) Perhaps with a script that has a look at the hardware with lspci and looks for the telltale VM hardware or am I completely missing something? Other than booting the thing inside the VM but that shouldn't be *too* hard I think.

[HeissFuss]

It would be easier to set up a partition to do this. It would work for both booting and vmware. Since you'll be taking up that space on your ntfs partition anyway, why don't you just shrink the ntfs and make a new ext3 part? If you want to move it to a diff system just dd it...

[Freakazoid]

[HeissFuss]

Ok, have fun then.

[Freakazoid]

aarg... ran into a problem with getting it to boot. Must have been doing something wrong or something. (will have to snag a copy of topologi linux later to see how they do it)
the install went great, though. (after getting the danged partition to mount r/w in knoppix...)

might try it the other way around later. (assuming that vmware's flat file image is anything resembling standard) aka: get it working in vmware then try booting it for "real" so to speak.`

[Dralnu]

Ok, I want to get this straight - are you booting into Linux directly, or going from Windows into Linux? The way it sounds, you are going to run into problems with viruses I'm sure (AV or not, they do not catch everything, not to mention what they could do with files it doesn't understand), which could modify the image to make it unstable/unusable.

If you want to test Linux out, then I'd say make yourself a LiveDVD. 4G of SquashFS is quite a bit. If you don't want to mess with partitioning (which is not a problem, btw. I know in XP I repartitioned my hda and it worked like a charm, and took me less then 10 minutes), then you could always download ISOs and write them to a CD/DVD (save them to Windows, then through Knoppix write them to a CD/DVD-R/W. You do have 2 optical drives, right?).
_________________
The day Microsoft makes a product that doesn't suck, is the day they make a vacuum cleaner.

[Freakazoid]

[Dralnu]

I did read it. I fail to see how you think putting an image file on a NTFS that Windows has access to makes it suddenly immune to everything, unless you plan on keeping it unmounted (which I'm not sure you can do with Windows or not).
_________________
The day Microsoft makes a product that doesn't suck, is the day they make a vacuum cleaner.

[Freakazoid]

[Dralnu]

[Freakazoid]

[Dralnu]

First time for anything.
_________________
The day Microsoft makes a product that doesn't suck, is the day they make a vacuum cleaner.