America's Army: politically sensitive?

[martinc]

disclaimer: I'm not much of a gamer, and haven't looked at AA: this post is to ask your opinion about the principle, not the details, of the recent Gentoo release.

Just wondered what people thought about military simulations, given the current political context? Please note I'm not trying to start a flame war (FWIW I'm British, and if in your opinion the "current political context" implicates the US, it implicates us too); I'm genuinely interested in, and hope to read, people's considered opinions. Or perhaps I'm wrong and this isn't an "issue" at all?


MOD Edit: added the poll posted in another thread. There's no need to vote on a separate thread IMHO. - bsolar
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Martin Corley, University of Edinburgh

[Lovechild]

it's just a game - it's not like playing it will make us want to invade a middleeastern country.

[zephyr1256]

Yeah, I play Tactical Ops whenever I get an urge to 'FPS binge', and its just that, a game.

I saw an interesting snippet about violent games on CNN yesterday. One man they were interviewing(I don't remember his exact credentials) said there were studies that suggested that children tended to process content of violent games more with emotional portions of their brains, which made them more suceptible to having their actions influenced by such activities. More mature young people and adults tended to process such games more with their frontal cerebral cortex, which is more cognitive and logical, which perhaps indicates a more fully developed capacity to distinguish between fantasy and reality. The idea seems plausible, to me, but again, I'm not a psychologist.

I know that's a little different from the political issues that might be involved in some of those games, it just reminded me of that, and perhaps there is some bearing, I could very much see such simulation type games having an effect on someone's political views if they are exposed to such content very early or possibly even later. It hasn't really affected me, again its just a game.

[AlterEgo]

This is my personal belief, I'm not telling anyone else what to think or do.
But since you asked:

I object to any kind of violence, except for personal self-defense.
I strongly object to "join the army" propaganda, or childish political simplicity.
I feel I have to do constructive things with my life.
Therefore, I will not touch the game, and I will not comment any more in this thread.

[Koon]

My 2 cents :

I find nothing bad in a military simulation, killing virtual people and doing nasty virtual stuff.

It becomes bad when the fictitous situations described are very close to the truth (the enemy is Iraqi or Afghan for example) because there is more to the eye than a military sim : there is at best a message, at worse a propaganda effort.

So I prefer QIII with totally fictitious situations to America's Army. I haven't tried it yet, but I heard it was officially supported by the US Army and part of a recent "we need you for US Army" effort...

-K

[Evangelion]

I hate violence (except for self-defence), but I have ZERO problems shooting a bunch of pixels on my screen.
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My tech-blog | My other blog

[lurid]

I don't know what the hell everyone is complaining about. I've seen this all over Slashdot and now here. Who cares who developed it, its a *game*. Its as violent as every other FPS game out there. If you have no problem with seeing bodies disintegrate when hit with a Rail Gun, then America's Army shouldn't be a problem. If your complaint is simply about violent video games, then your out of luck because if you haven't noticed, that war was lost many years ago. If your complaint is political, then I think you need to relax and enjoy a GAME.

God. Gentoo develops what seems to be a promising gaming venture and all you people are doing is complaining. Get a grip.

[Jimbow]

I am shocked and dismayed by the close association between Gentoo and "America's Army". People have said in other threads that we should "keep the politics out of it" and I fully agree. Associating Gentoo with "America's Army" is political even if it was done with the best of apolitical intentions. Letting this happen without comment is a political statement.

I believe that everyone is entitled to have their own beliefs and to be able to express them without being harassed for doing so. I believe there is a rising tide of fascism in mainstream America these days. People in news organizations are fired for expressing anti-administration views, they are fired for telling the truth. All in the name of "keeping politics out of it" while at the same time the news media is flooded with lies from the whitehouse. Media outlets refuse to run paid anti-war ads while at the same time sponsor pro-war demonstrations. All in the name of "keeping politics out of it".

For me, Gentoo was a break from all of this. It gave me a way to interact with fellow humans peacefully and constructively amid the turmoil of lies and war and corruption.

Perhaps if the political climate were different I would not be bothered so much by an association between Gentoo and "America's Army". But I can't quickly forget that America's army was recently used in a war of aggression against the will of the UN and the vast majority of human beings on this earth. Nor can I quickly forget that most (if not all) of the reasons given for this war were a pack of lies. Nor can I forget that almost half of all America's were brainwashed (there is no better word for it) by the corporate american media into thinking that Saddam Hussein was responsible for the Sept 11th attacks on the US.

This new association with "America's Army" transforms Gentoo out of being (for me) an apolitical refuge. It no longer serves as an escape from the harsh political realities of life. It has suddenly become unfun.

I am going to take a break from Gentoo for a while. It was great fun while it lasted. Thank you all and good bye.
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After Perl everything else is just assembly language.

[Evangelion]

[idl]

I don't agree with the motives behind the game... but hey, its free and I know I'm never going to join the American army... unless ofcourse I'm in America when they call everyone up for service..
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a.k.a port001
Found a bug? Please report it: Gentoo Bugzilla

[lurid]

This is insane. Americas Army quickly became THE most hyped game in the Linux community the SECOND the screenshots hit Slashdot. Gentoo simply brought this game to you. If you don't like the game, if you hate the US, if you think an "Army Game" is bad: DON'T PLAY IT. Good freaking god, man. Are people ditching Microsoft because it was developed for their OS? I can't believe this. What would you say if, god forbid, the US Military decided to use *gasp* Linux, or even Gentoo specifically, in their operations? Would we all be happy about more Linux promotion or would we start bitching about unjustified wars? Gentoogames has potentional. They've brought us a very hyped game. *I* am happy about that. I could give a rats ass about who developed it.

I didn't like the war, I don't condone the US governments latest actions and I think Bush has caused some major major damage to not only our country (economy, etc) but to the international community (basically rendering the UN obsolete). This, however, IS A GAME. I will play it, and I will enjoy it. Just like I enjoy CS, UT, and Q3. You say everyone has the freedom to say what they like? Consider that right envoked: You're being stupid. :)

EDIT: Btw, I'm currently getting about 5k/sec on my download, so evidently a whole hell of a lot of people agree with me.

[iwasbiggs]

[barlad]

I am always a bit hot headed when it comes to that kind of situation. Especially since a few years of studies taught me how hypocrit and disgusting that world is. Anyway, I will try to keep it as flameproof as possible. Otherwise, I will moderate myself when I cool down!

The principle of that game is totally outrageous in my opinion. I have no problem playing violent games... Counter-Strike, QuakeIII and whatever else there can be. It is virtual. We all know it is. Those games hold no symbol, they hold no value but the entertainment we get out of it.

On the other hand, AA is another object. That purpose of that game is to be a symbol. That's when it gets really dangerous. It summarizes the american way of life in its worst, most dangerous, and most hypocritical aspects. I will not go further on this point because that's when I will start flaming.
To make it short, the principle of that game is just another stone for a dangerous and disgusting propaganda. I don't know where we are heading but... may someone save us.

[lurid]

Ok. Hate that game. Thats cool, everyones entitled to an opinion. If you dislike the game, no one forces you to play it. Just like all the people that dislike the other violent games for various reaons. What I'm arguing here is the attacks on Gentoo for releasing this game. Gentoo supplied a game that was in demand. Thats all they did. If you dislike the game, cool, but the attacks on Gentoo are uncalled for.. and frankly, a bit childish.

[bsolar]

Anybody working on a "Taleban Army" MOD?
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I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.

[soulwarrior]

Hm, how often do I see linux-users bitch at microsoft, because of their monopol and how they use it to say what we have to do.

Isn't it what, let's say some army did: use there dominant position, to render UNO useless, to do what was not legitim, to tell people lies by the way of the medias.
Of course the irakan boss was not a good man, he did really bad things with his people and others.
But the way how some army/governement proceded was in my opinion not right.
Think about some koreans (I think they have an atom-bomb?). There some army, doesn't just walk in and shoot, but in these case they use the diplomatic way.

I don't think it correct to support such a game in the opensource domain, where you want to share freely ideas, take the time to listen to constructive oppinions of other people, work together to build something great.
This is what some army does not do, in fact they do the opposite.
Don't listen to your ennemy, simply destroy it.

Why not simple provide the platform, etc. and let the users decide which games they want to play.
One users wants to play fps-games, the other roleplaying, ... , so be it.

I don't really like that the people behind gentoo support such a propaganda-game.

Well, you will say, that it is just a game.

Well, I don't think so.
I think it is important what we are doing, and why we are doing it.
You could say it are just pixels you shoot at.
But is it really right to shoot at other men, even if they are virtual?

Would be better to leave the choice at the users what they want to use.

Right now, I think I will a look at alternatives to gentoo, because it don't like the political way they take right now.

But I must say that I like the way of gentoo, would hate to leave its community because of political reaons.

On the other hand, I can't remember debian to have taken such negative politcal steps?

Political reasons are important for me, I want to choose with things I use and promote, because I want to live in a better world.
A world without war, where people use their time not to think about a thousand ways how they can shoot somebody, be it virtually or real, but in which they use their energy to bring the humanity forward, to increase our knowledge of the universe, to improve the community.

At last I want to say that I like to promote things which are constructive and not destructive.

In the case of gentoo, I would to see it evolve as a platform for games, the desktop, servers, etc.

Hey I think I won't leave gentoo so quickly, do like its way of customizing, etc.
But I wouldn't like it to take too much of a patriot-touch.

Why not bring out as a next game for gentoo games a constructive game like Sim-city

[Lovechild]

[bsolar]

[lurid]

Yeah, and the soilders that "invaded" Iraq did it because they're all bad people, right? The people that "invaded" Iraq did so under orders. In fact, a good majority of the people in the military right now are there for training and schooling.. not to fight wars. They do what they're told, thats all there is to it. They rely on teamwork, communication and respect. Without these, they become dead.

There is a VERY important distiction to be made between military and government. I disagree with the *government* that sent in the troops, but I *respect* the troops that went in there. Saying this game is bad because of a *government decision* does an injustice to the families of dead soldiers. Hate the government who issues the orders, not the soldiers who have no choice.

[mpsii]

FOR THE LOVE OF PETE!!!!

GEEEZ, FOLKS, GET A LIFE!

Several have commented that this is an "association with the US Army" blah blah blah. Yeah, they contacted the US Army. Guess who developed the best FREE FPS game thus far? Yup, the grunts in the US.

The US Army heard of a cry from the Linux crowd for a Linux-based version of the client. With Gentoo being an optimized, source-based distribution to get the most out of a Linux environment, I say, "What a pair!"

No one complained when Gentoo was able to snag and redistribute the UT2003 demo with their 1.4 LiveCD. THAT is one hecka bloody game with certain settings.

Having played AA: Operations myself, on the Windows platform, I must say that any "recruiting" effort is not direct. There are explanations of the Rangers, Airborne, Snipers, etc that could contain propaganda or "US Army Doctrine," whatever. Most of the time that is skipped through just to get to the game.

Personally, I don't like the game. The whole getting killed and having to wait until the end of the round and having to qualify for the sniper rifle (even for practicing with it), combined with high system requirements, has driven me away from it. I am happier with Day of Defeat and Counter Strike for my FPS gaming needs.

Kudos for Gentoo for snagging the release!!!

I am sticking with Gentoo/Wine running Half-Life DoD and CS.
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Michael

[bsolar]

Just to quote something from the Parents FAQ

[bsolar]

[soulwarrior]

[soulwarrior]

[jt42]

I'll reserve judgement on the actual game until I've played it.

My concern is more general - does this announcement mean that Gentoo is shifting more towards a 'G' is for gaming mentality and away from a 'G'-ood, 'G'-eneral, 'G'eek-friendly distro?