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Gentree
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Joined: 01 Jul 2003
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Location: France, Old Europe
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 Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:24 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | 1. random corruption for some people when using a bad version of reiser4 included in an experimental kernel. I think sometime after 2.6.12 such a change occured where if you even mounted your reiser4 partition with a newer kernel it would corrupt. (and fsck didn't always fix it) |
that was due the format change which was not backwards compatible but there was NO corruption . Again these myths tend to propagate. The issue was that once mounted with the new format you could not mount it again with a kernel that only knew the old format. For the old kernel it _appeared_ to be corrupted. This could be fix on the old kernel by a fsck. I did it, and chose to remain with the old format for a while to retain liveCD compatibilitly.
There should probably have been a warning in the reiser4progs ebuild at the time of the update , this did cause some confusion because what looked like a run of the mill update from 1.04 to 1.05 caused big changes.
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playfool
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Joined: 01 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:46 am Post subject: |
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| Gentree wrote: | | Quote: | | these tests were run with 2.6.11 & 2.6.15, so perhaps most of those errors don't apply anymore to most recent kernels |
thank you that answered my first question when I saw that post . Playfool , please dont take things like that out of context, there's enough FUD flying around on this subject already.
hell, 2.6.11 was still on the old R4 format , this is ancient history.
The only problem I have had in years using R4 for root and portage and that _may_ attributable to the fs was a corruption that occured when I opened 10 multimegabyte files simulataneously in gimp.
This was clearly a stress test. Things got very unstable largely due to poor error handling in gimp I suspect. I was able to shut down but needed to fsck the paritition. All was OK after.
I have seen other reports that writing a test prog to open 1000 files in a tight loop can trip R4 as well. I have not tried but it seems similar to my case.
That's the only fault I am aware of.
Looks like skunk may be the way forward for crypto, seems like he has smoothed some of the wrinkles in mm.
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I did not take anything out of context, I merely reported on an excellent new tool to do stability testing, the nature of writing papers is that you have to freeze them at some point. The author can't both present a finished paper and keep up with the latest kernel versions when he needs results. The same paper singled out Reiser4 has ONLY displaying issues when using O_SYNC, in terms of areas of potential bugs it was probably the best one tested - the first step in fixing a corruption bug is knowing it's there and having a good regression test available - what you read into such an article is up to you, if you think regression testing is FUD however I suggest you get your head examined. |
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Gentree
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Joined: 01 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:04 am Post subject: |
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OK let's keep cool. I never said regression testing was FUD so that comment makes no sense.
Neither did I say your comment was FUD, which seems to be the way you took it. So take care to read what was before going into flame mode.
I'm saying there is a lot of FUD about R4 and posting a link to a thorough investigation like that but failing to point out that it refers to R4 of about one year ago will likely get picked up by some detractor and repeated as proof that R4 is unstable, borked... etc etc.
You chose to take one comment form a report , you could have taken the care to note what version of R4 it referred to.
Your link is interesting, thanks.
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vipernicus
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| HecHacker1 wrote: | | I'd also like to point out that I've fixed all my interactivity issues with reiser4. It turns out the genetic rsdl scheduler I was using was causing the problems. I'm now using RSDL without the genetic modifications and there are no problems. Interactivity is similar to ext3 (despite reiser4 using more cpu). |
genetics = overhead
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ianegg
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:07 am Post subject: |
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Well, when I tried to reboot after reorganising some partitions on one drive, my reiser4 /usr partition on a different drive decides to go haywire. So I fsck it, reboot, can't start X and various other things due to missing files and directories so I back up what's left and do another reboot, and / does the same thing. I'm in the middle of reinstalling gentoo with no reiser4 partitions right now.
I've just started playing with vipernicus's sources recently, so I'd really like to blame him, but I know it's everyone else's fault for posting in this thread and cursing me! Damn you all! 
I've had occasional problems before, and this is the final straw, I'm revoking my recommendation and replacing it with a bit fat NO! I'm not going to think of touching reiser4 until it's in the kernel proper, and is considered stable.
Well, maybe I'll keep it for /usr/portage...  |
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buddabrod
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:13 am Post subject: |
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It's your choice and your faul, don't blame anyone for your mistakes 
I recently gave reiser4 another try with the result, that i my system crashed somewhen, i had to let fsck rebuild the fs multiple times and then i was able to boot until X loads and then comes a kernel panic.
I only say: never ever again Data is there almost completely, but some parts of files are missing, for example parts of my music are damaged. I love my jfs drive, i did never have any data loss there and it's a 300GB partition. |
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kernelOfTruth
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Location: Vienna, Austria; Germany; hello world :)
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| ianegg wrote: | Well, when I tried to reboot after reorganising some partitions on one drive, my reiser4 /usr partition on a different drive decides to go haywire. So I fsck it, reboot, can't start X and various other things due to missing files and directories so I back up what's left and do another reboot, and / does the same thing. I'm in the middle of reinstalling gentoo with no reiser4 partitions right now.
I've just started playing with vipernicus's sources recently, so I'd really like to blame him, but I know it's everyone else's fault for posting in this thread and cursing me! Damn you all!
I've had occasional problems before, and this is the final straw, I'm revoking my recommendation and replacing it with a bit fat NO! I'm not going to think of touching reiser4 until it's in the kernel proper, and is considered stable.
Well, maybe I'll keep it for /usr/portage... |
if you tried out most recent viper6 it's mostly to its fault, I tried it out yesterday & had problems mounting & unmounting reiser4 & reiserfs partitions, after the reboot to viper4 my /usr/portage partition (with reiser4) corrupted so much that I had to format it 
thank god it didn't kill my /home & / partition (fortunately I always have a backup of /home at hand )
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Gentree
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:20 am Post subject: |
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| buddabrod wrote: | It's your choice and your fault, don't blame anyone for your mistakes
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Exactly, it amazing how those who shout the loudest about R4 are those who seem to think screwing with experimental kernels with very little user testing and no backups is someone else's fault when there's a problem.
If you have a back up and it does not work out you say "oh well I'll try a different kernel" and you restore you backup and you're back where you were in 10 minutes.
If you have half your system on R4 without backups and try a bleeding edge kernel and blow holes in your fs don't start curing others or R4 or anyone one else.
| ianegg wrote: | | I've just started playing with vipernicus's sources recently, so I'd really like to blame him, but I know it's everyone else's fault for posting in this thread and cursing me! Damn you all! |
How childish. I'd like to think that was a joke but you are obviously very angry so I doubt it.
I tried a viper-sources release a while back and it did not work too well so I dropped it.
I'm now using 2.6.20-nicus1 before that it was no-sources 2.6.18 . Both worked very well for me and I've never screwed up a partition, R4 or otherwise.
The title of this thread asked about R4 , it did not say "do you recommend messing about with experimental kernels without backing up". If it did I'm sure all the posts here would be saying NO.
So if you dont have the compentance to test stuff like this, go back to gentoo-sources and ext3 but please stop blaming others for your own mistakes.
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ianegg
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:22 am Post subject: |
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Could very well be viper6 that was the final straw, but freezes and other issues seemingly caused by reiser4 have gradually been getting more frequent over my last few kernels (beyond, emission and viper). Since I've had similar problems before to a lesser degree, I think I had it coming. I'd still put it down to something badly configured on my part, or some unfortunate incompatibility.
Lucky I'd just backed up all my important stuff when it happened. As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, it's probably a good idea to stay as close to gentoo-sources as possible while playing with reider4. |
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Gentree
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:35 am Post subject: |
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if R4 is all you need you can patch gentoo-sources , I even think I was a patch set which does just that.
There's a whole bunch of experimental patch sets but you just need to follow the support threads for a while to see how reliable they are (or not!). Dont be in the first half dozen to test a new patch set unless you like the risk.
Most of these are just guys messing around to see what they can tweek or break. Some patchers clearly have more talent than others you need to be careful what you install.
Interestingly nicus1 is one of the shortest support threads I've seen in a long time. Maybe because it works?
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ianegg
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| buddabrod wrote: | | How childish. I'd like to think that was a joke but you are obviously very angry so I doubt it. |
I hope that was a joke.  I put the smiley there for a reason.
I'm not complaining or anything, I tried to be impartial. (Though I can see how my humour might me misinterpreted.) I'm just relating my experiences that happen to have come to a head now of all times. I'm not claiming anything to be fact, or blaming anyone, just explaining my position on the topic at hand.
edit: I sould really learn to read more carefully so I dont have to keep coming back
| Gentree wrote: | | The title of this thread asked about R4 , it did not say "do you recommend messing about with experimental kernels without backing up". If it did I'm sure all the posts here would be saying NO. |
Just need to add that I'm going on my experience with reiser4 over pretty much my whole Gentoo life. I can't even remember the first patchset I used to try it, but viper has been the first one I've tried that's not geared slightly more towards stability. Reiser4 has always been quirky for me, and I've lost partitions before. The only time I've actually lost important data was because of not noticing a typo until it was far too late.
(Sorry, I'm all in defensive mode now  ) |
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vipernicus
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| kernelOfTruth wrote: | | ianegg wrote: | Well, when I tried to reboot after reorganising some partitions on one drive, my reiser4 /usr partition on a different drive decides to go haywire. So I fsck it, reboot, can't start X and various other things due to missing files and directories so I back up what's left and do another reboot, and / does the same thing. I'm in the middle of reinstalling gentoo with no reiser4 partitions right now.
I've just started playing with vipernicus's sources recently, so I'd really like to blame him, but I know it's everyone else's fault for posting in this thread and cursing me! Damn you all!
I've had occasional problems before, and this is the final straw, I'm revoking my recommendation and replacing it with a bit fat NO! I'm not going to think of touching reiser4 until it's in the kernel proper, and is considered stable.
Well, maybe I'll keep it for /usr/portage... |
if you tried out most recent viper6 it's mostly to its fault, I tried it out yesterday & had problems mounting & unmounting reiser4 & reiserfs partitions, after the reboot to viper4 my /usr/portage partition (with reiser4) corrupted so much that I had to format it
thank god it didn't kill my /home & / partition (fortunately I always have a backup of /home at hand ) |
https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-3980977.html#3980977
The reiser4 patch in -viper6 is identical to the reiser4 patch in -viper4. Has there been some update to reiser4 or reiser4progs since then?
| Quote: | | gentoo-portage.com |
*reiser4progs-1.0.6 (16 Mar 2007)
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Child_of_Sun_24
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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I use it as / and it works fine, with the 2.6.18 Kernel, the Official reiser4 Patches for the 2.6.19 Kernel crashed my System, so i don't use it, but with the 2.6.18 everything works fine.
CoS24 |
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ianegg
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks vipernicus. I just noted in viper's thread that I definitely had the updated tools (at least since the weekend) so presumably whatever problem was already affecting me was made worse when I tried to fix it.
I'm still going to steer clear for a while and just see how it fares on for me /usr/portage, (which is the only partition I never had issues with, so I don't know how fair a test that will be.) |
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Gentree
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Child_of_Sun_24 wrote: | I use it as / and it works fine, with the 2.6.18 Kernel, the Official reiser4 Patches for the 2.6.19 Kernel crashed my System, so i don't use it, but with the 2.6.18 everything works fine.
CoS24 |
the whole of the 2.6.19 branch was a turd from what I saw. Some kernel devs hacking about with fundamentals like inode structures in pretty incompatible ways then reverting half of it back and several packages like fuse, cloop etc got broken and rebroken.
It seems to have stabilised a bit now and nicus1 has been running here for some time without any hiccoughs. thx vips.
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rambam
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| ianegg wrote: | | Well, maybe I'll keep it for /usr/portage... |
It is pretty unstable.
I would suggest JFS or EXT3
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ianegg
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Gentree wrote: | | the whole of the 2.6.19 branch was a turd from what I saw. |
Is the kernel still doing the odd/even - experimental/stable thing? Or is it just coincidence .19 sucked?
| rambam wrote: | | I would suggest JFS or EXT3 |
How does JFS perform for portage? I'm playing with ext4 on my new install, mostly still in backwards compatible mode for the moment. I've tried XFS before, still have it for storage on one drive, but it's noisy. That's one thing I really like about reiser4 - it seems a silly thing to say - but it really is quiet. |
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vipernicus
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| ianegg wrote: | | Gentree wrote: | | the whole of the 2.6.19 branch was a turd from what I saw. |
Is the kernel still doing the odd/even - experimental/stable thing? Or is it just coincidence .19 sucked?
| rambam wrote: | | I would suggest JFS or EXT3 |
How does JFS perform for portage? I'm playing with ext4 on my new install, mostly still in backwards compatible mode for the moment. I've tried XFS before, still have it for storage on one drive, but it's noisy. That's one thing I really like about reiser4 - it seems a silly thing to say - but it really is quiet. |
Go with ext4, it is really worth it.
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Gentree
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| HecHacker1 wrote: | | I am currently using skunk-sources (based on mm .21) for my reiser4 with cryptcompress. Perhaps it can help. |
exact version pls.
TIA
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numeritos
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| Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:08 am Post subject: |
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| I moved my Gentoo install to another HD (a bigger one). I'm now using reiser4 for /usr/portage and /tmp (with gentoo-sources-2.6.20-r3. Hope it gives me nice results! |
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numeritos
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:24 am Post subject: |
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| buddabrod wrote: | | Maybe it's my slow PC, but emerge --sync is completed 2 times faster when portage and / are on jfs partitions. reiser4 took much longer and my system was overloaded.. |
Could be. Reiser4 eats quite a lot of CPU. Not a problem on an updated PC, but could be on an old one |
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vipernicus
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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I had just short week using reiser4 w/ cryptcompress.
I started out using 2.6.20 with the reiser4 patch posted by the benchmarker, and ran that for 3 or 4 days with no problem. Then I updated to 2.6.21-rc5-mm3, and things were OK for a couple of reboots.
First thing I noticed about reiser4, is that it is not as fast as ext4 with extents. It seems to lag, and while doing so, bogs down my system. Ext4 with extents didn't lag, and didn't bog down my system. Then, I started to notice files disappearing at random, or just not showing changes made to the files since last reboot. Now, at this point, if I go to 'cp -r files ../' in some cases, the filesystem seems to hang, and does not continue.
From my point of view, there is nothing in reiser4 that ext3/ext4 can't give me.
Performance: ext4 > reiser4
Stability: ext3/4 > reiser4
Size Savings: ext3/4 < reiser4
So what if I lose 100 megs to gain performance and stability?
System tested on:
Athlon-XP 2800+ CPU
1GB DDR333 RAM
160GB PATA (UDMA 6)
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numeritos
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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Didn't try ext4 with extents on my /usr/portage partition, but since I'm using reiser4 for it (about a week), it's just flying!
edit: I did not enable cryptocompress though |
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vipernicus
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| numeritos wrote: | Didn't try ext4 with extents on my /usr/portage partition, but since I'm using reiser4 for it (about a week), it's just flying!
edit: I did not enable cryptocompress though |
Try ext4 with extents and see what you think about it.
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numeritos
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| vipernicus wrote: | | numeritos wrote: | Didn't try ext4 with extents on my /usr/portage partition, but since I'm using reiser4 for it (about a week), it's just flying!
edit: I did not enable cryptocompress though |
Try ext4 with extents and see what you think about it. |
I'll leave reiser4 for some more time. I just made a migration from a HD to another and I'm little bit tired of playing with partitions right now  |
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