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yarjar
n00b
Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 9
Location: Madison, WI, USA
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 Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:03 pm Post subject: Building a new system... Athlon 64 X2 or Core 2 Duo? |
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| I'm planning on building a new system, installing Gentoo on it, and optimizing it to the max. I'm a long time Arch user, but I want to tinker a bit more... Anyway, Core 2 Duo seems to top the charts in performance, but does it have any problems with Gentoo? Which is more 'compatible', or better for Gentoo? Are 64 bit processors good for regular desktop computing by this point? Thanks. |
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user118696
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Joined: 16 Sep 2005
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StringCheesian
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Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Posts: 887
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| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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This is a particularly relevant question for Gentoo users. There have been many benchmarks showing how these two compare, but they're all with software like Windows that going to be mostly generic and conservative (for compatibility) in terms of compiler optimizations and use of new instructions. When the entire system is compiled with -march= it can matter which cpu GCC is better at optimizing for.
| pascal.bolduc wrote: | | https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-499953-start-0-postdays-0-postorder-asc-highlight-64bit+32bit.html |
That's a different subject. Both the Core 2 Duo and the Athlon X2 support pretty much the same 64 bit instruction set, so this isn't 32 bit vs 64 bit.
Last edited by StringCheesian on Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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user118696
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Joined: 16 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Are 64 bit processors good for regular desktop computing by this point? |
StringCheesian, I was answering to that question... |
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StringCheesian
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Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Posts: 887
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| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| pascal.bolduc wrote: | | Quote: | | Are 64 bit processors good for regular desktop computing by this point? |
StringCheesian, I was answering to that question... |
Oh right. Sorry  |
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yarjar
n00b
Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 9
Location: Madison, WI, USA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| StringCheesian wrote: | | When the entire system is compiled with -march= it can matter which cpu GCC is better at optimizing for. |
So which CPU is GCC better at optimizing for? |
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BitJam
Advocate
Joined: 12 Aug 2003
Posts: 2508
Location: Silver City, NM
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| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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Very recently AMD drastically reduced their prices. AMD also made a big contribution to Groklaw.
I recently built a system using an AMD x2 3600 Brisbane which is now only $65 at NewEgg. Some say this is the best buy in CPUs available today but you will probably want to pay more for a modest boost in performance.
edit: fixed simple typo.
Last edited by BitJam on Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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sirdilznik
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Joined: 28 Apr 2005
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| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Neither. Opteron for the win. |
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yarjar
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Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 9
Location: Madison, WI, USA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Ok, I'm leaning towards the AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ right now :> |
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StringCheesian
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Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Posts: 887
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| yarjar wrote: | | StringCheesian wrote: | | When the entire system is compiled with -march= it can matter which cpu GCC is better at optimizing for. |
So which CPU is GCC better at optimizing for? |
I wish I knew. We need benchmarks. |
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bob_111
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Joined: 12 Oct 2004
Posts: 155
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:51 am Post subject: |
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| The intel chip is just to far ahead for any amd x2 to keep up. Not to mention the overclocking potential is huge! 4m cache (e6600) with 3ghz+ clock speeds is just insane. |
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nbensa
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Joined: 10 Jul 2002
Posts: 799
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:09 am Post subject: |
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Well. I own a Core2Duo E6600 an it is impressive. Speed is absolutely insane. I can compile a Gentoo base (stage 3 -> emerge -eD world) in 60 min. OpenOffice 2.1 in more or less 3 hours. kdelibs in 20 minutes.
| Code: |
* app-office/openoffice-2.1.0
Emerged at: Wed Feb 7 23:31:08 2007
Build time: 3 hours, 22 minutes, and 41 seconds
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| Code: |
* kde-base/kdelibs-3.5.6-r2
Emerged at: Sat Feb 3 10:20:14 2007
Build time: 18 minutes, and 44 seconds
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I will buy an AMD X2 3800+ 90nm (EE 65W) in a few days to replace a Pentium III webserver, so maybe I'll post some comparisons between them... |
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yarjar
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Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 9
Location: Madison, WI, USA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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nbensa, what CFLAGS do you use?
Also, what do you use for the -march on Athlon 64 X2's: k8 or athlon64? |
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nbensa
l33t
Joined: 10 Jul 2002
Posts: 799
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:06 am Post subject: |
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On my core2duo:
| Code: | | CFLAGS="-march=prescott -O2 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer" |
I still have'nt got my X2 but I guess I'll use athlon64. Please note that I still running 32bit :-/
Best regards,
Norberto |
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TinheadNed
Guru
Joined: 05 Apr 2003
Posts: 339
Location: Farnborough, UK
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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On my X2 I use | Code: | "-march=athlon64 -O2 -pipe"
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Nothing fancy. Oh, and -j3! Only reason it's not -j5 is when I'm building something that uses loads of memory, as I only have a gig currently. |
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yarjar
n00b
Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 9
Location: Madison, WI, USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Well I'm quite swayed towards the Athlon 64 X2 6000+. Now, can anyone recommend a nice high-end motherboard to use with it? |
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nbensa
l33t
Joined: 10 Jul 2002
Posts: 799
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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| yarjar wrote: | | Well I'm quite swayed towards the Athlon 64 X2 6000+. |
Why? |
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yarjar
n00b
Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 9
Location: Madison, WI, USA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:12 am Post subject: |
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It just seems that the Athlon 64 has a specific 64 bit march setting for it, but the Core 2 Duo doesn't, at least until GCC 4.3 apparently. |
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nbensa
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Joined: 10 Jul 2002
Posts: 799
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:06 am Post subject: |
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| yarjar wrote: |
but the Core 2 Duo doesn't, at least until GCC 4.3 apparently. |
hmmm!??
| Code: | _nocona_
Improved version of Intel Pentium4 CPU with 64-bit
extensions, MMX, SSE, SSE2 and SSE3 instruction set support.
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| Code: |
$ gcc -v
Using built-in specs.
Target: i686-pc-linux-gnu
Configured with: /var/tmp/portage/sys-devel/gcc-4.1.2/work/gcc-4.1.2/configure --prefix=/usr --bindir=/usr/i686-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/4.1.2 --includedir=/usr/lib/gcc/i686-pc-linux-gnu/4.1.2/include --datadir=/usr/share/gcc-data/i686-pc-linux-gnu/4.1.2 --mandir=/usr/share/gcc-data/i686-pc-linux-gnu/4.1.2/man --infodir=/usr/share/gcc-data/i686-pc-linux-gnu/4.1.2/info --with-gxx-include-dir=/usr/lib/gcc/i686-pc-linux-gnu/4.1.2/include/g++-v4 --host=i686-pc-linux-gnu --build=i686-pc-linux-gnu --disable-altivec --disable-nls --with-system-zlib --disable-checking --disable-werror --enable-secureplt --disable-libunwind-exceptions --disable-multilib --disable-libmudflap --disable-libssp --disable-libgcj --enable-languages=c,c++ --enable-shared --enable-threads=posix --enable-__cxa_atexit --enable-clocale=gnu
Thread model: posix
gcc version 4.1.2 (Gentoo 4.1.2)
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I'm on 32bit (prescott) because this harddrive was installed on a Pentium III which served me as my main machine for a long time. I didn't took the time to boostrap a 64bit installation (yet). And yes, that's the same Pentium III that now I'll replace with an AMD X2 3800+  P3 is still a really good microprocessor!
Best regards,
Norberto |
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jonnevers
Veteran
Joined: 02 Jan 2003
Posts: 1594
Location: Gentoo64 land
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| nbensa wrote: | | And yes, that's the same Pentium III that now I'll replace with an AMD X2 3800+ P3 is still a really good microprocessor! |
people still argue that the p3's architecture is vastly superior to the p4's netburst architecture.
but that x2 will be nice, run it in 64bit mode though
I don't know about gcc flags, but I've seen lots of people on these forums running 64bit Gentoo via the 'amd64' ARCH on their core2duo's. The processors must be supported by gcc... using the nocona march, I assume. |
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nbensa
l33t
Joined: 10 Jul 2002
Posts: 799
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| jonnevers wrote: |
but that x2 will be nice, run it in 64bit mode though |
Unless you have more than 4GB of ram or have an urge to run 64bit software, I don't see the point of running 64bit.
| Quote: | | I don't know about gcc flags, but I've seen lots of people on these forums running 64bit Gentoo via the 'amd64' ARCH on their core2duo's. |
You mean everybody is using amd64 profile? That's a different thing than march. Core2Duo (mine at least) is march=prescott in 32bit (arch=x86), march=nocona in 64bit (arch=amd64)
Regards,
Norberto |
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jonnevers
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Joined: 02 Jan 2003
Posts: 1594
Location: Gentoo64 land
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| nbensa wrote: | | jonnevers wrote: |
but that x2 will be nice, run it in 64bit mode though |
Unless you have more than 4GB of ram or have an urge to run 64bit software, I don't see the point of running 64bit.
| Quote: | | I don't know about gcc flags, but I've seen lots of people on these forums running 64bit Gentoo via the 'amd64' ARCH on their core2duo's. |
You mean everybody is using amd64 profile? That's a different thing than march. Core2Duo (mine at least) is march=prescott in 32bit (arch=x86), march=nocona in 64bit (arch=amd64)
Regards,
Norberto |
obviously I meant the gentoo ARCH....
well. i don't see the point in running a 32bit OS on a 64bit capable processor regardless of anything else. Gentoo64 (amd6, x86_64) is as rock stable and complete as Gentoo32 (x86). It seems sort of nonsensical. you aren't gaining anything by using Gentoo32, fyi. Not that you necessarily gain anything from running Gentoo64... it just seems like an odd thing to do.
I mean the more people on it, the more mature it will get.. not that I'm saying its not mature because it is. and do you really think you'll ever see a 32bit only new CPU ever again (from one of the major vendors)? |
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TinheadNed
Guru
Joined: 05 Apr 2003
Posts: 339
Location: Farnborough, UK
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | well. i don't see the point in running a 32bit OS on a 64bit capable processor regardless of anything else. Gentoo64 (amd6, x86_64) is as rock stable and complete as Gentoo32 (x86). It seems sort of nonsensical. you aren't gaining anything by using Gentoo32, fyi. Not that you necessarily gain anything from running Gentoo64... it just seems like an odd thing to do. |
This isn't entirely true. Running a 64 processor in 32bit mode gives twice as many registers to the proc(s), and also allows more instructions to fit in the caches of the cores, due to the shorter instructions. You also get things like flash and java in firefox working properly.
Saying that, I'm not making any plans to change my two 64 bit machines back any time soon. |
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nbensa
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Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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I've said, I'm running on 32bit because I didn't took the time to bootstrap a 64bit install, and since I don't get any performance gain, it just doesn't make sense to me. And BTW there's that flash (and win32codecs, etc) thingy too....
Regards,
Norberto |
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jonnevers
Veteran
Joined: 02 Jan 2003
Posts: 1594
Location: Gentoo64 land
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| nbensa wrote: | I've said, I'm running on 32bit because I didn't took the time to bootstrap a 64bit install, and since I don't get any performance gain, it just doesn't make sense to me. And BTW there's that flash (and win32codecs, etc) thingy too....
Regards,
Norberto |
yeah, i was going to edit my post stating that moving an existing install from 32bit CPU to a 64bit CPU is the one valid reason to stay on Gentoo32. that being said, I wouldn't encourage anyone to install Gentoo32 anymore unless they have a 32bit only CPU.
win32codecs is OLD news, which is part of the problem.
the mplayer guys have been hard at work and mplayer (via ffmpeg, iirc) natively supports Window Media Formats! no more win32codecs, at all.
flash I can agree with, Java in the browser too as Sun hasn't released a 64bit plugin even though all Sun JDK/JRE's are 64bit native now.
but there are better solutions then keeping the whole system at 32bit. such as just using firefox-bin which corrects the problem everytime or using nsplugin-wrapper, which people have had mixed success with. |
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Gentoo on AMD64
