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stubbers
n00b
Joined: 20 May 2007
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 Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 8:24 am Post subject: i586 Support in 2007.0 |
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Gday,
I'm new to Gentoo and decided to give it a go... However I am running an AMD K6-2 which i believe is an i586 processor. I am running through the tutorial and reached the stage where it states
| Quote: | | Most PC users should use the stage3-i686-2007.0.tar.bz2 stage3 archive. All modern PCs are considered i686. If you use an old machine, you can check the list of i686-compatible processors on Wikipedia. Old processors such as the Pentium, K5, K6, or Via C3 and similar require the i586 stage3. Only very old processors such as the 80386 and 80486 require the generic x86 stage3 (and a huge amount of patience.) |
The tutorial implies that there is a i586 stage 3 in the 2007.0 release... Yet I cannot find it on alot of mirrors. I was wondering if it does exist and what I should do considering I have an i586 cpu...
Cheers,
Stubbers |
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erik258
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 8:26 am Post subject: |
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just start with a 2006.1 cd instead. You can still update everything later.
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stubbers
n00b
Joined: 20 May 2007
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 8:31 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the fast reply, i've got the 2007 installcd... I'm guessing i need to burn the 2006 one to use the 2006 stage3?
Cheers,
Stubbers |
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stubbers
n00b
Joined: 20 May 2007
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 9:15 am Post subject: |
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Will the 2006.1 live cd run on a AMD K6-2, i'm not sure if it is i686 or i586... And if not is there a tutorial for the basic install cd for 2006.1, i can't find it...
Cheers,
Stubbers |
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i92guboj
Bodhisattva
Joined: 30 Nov 2004
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Location: Córdoba (Spain)
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| The k6's are i686 compatible CPUs (starting with the regular k6 and up to k6-III). So, I wouldn't worry. Just use a regular 2007.0 stage3. |
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mark_alec
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Joined: 11 Sep 2004
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 10:26 am Post subject: |
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| 6thpink wrote: | | The k6's are i686 compatible CPUs (starting with the regular k6 and up to k6-III). So, I wouldn't worry. Just use a regular 2007.0 stage3. |
They are not i686 compatible.
stubbers,
you should use an i586 stage from 2006.1, there is no need to burn a new cd.
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stubbers
n00b
Joined: 20 May 2007
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 11:20 am Post subject: |
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Thankyou for your fast responses again... I presume that I can just runthrough the 2007.0 tutorial with the 2006.1 files... As the tutorial for 2006.1 dosen't seem to have a tutorial for non live installation...
Cheers,
Stubbers |
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i92guboj
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Joined: 30 Nov 2004
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Location: Córdoba (Spain)
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| mark_alec wrote: | | 6thpink wrote: | | The k6's are i686 compatible CPUs (starting with the regular k6 and up to k6-III). So, I wouldn't worry. Just use a regular 2007.0 stage3. |
They are not i686 compatible.
stubbers,
you should use an i586 stage from 2006.1, there is no need to burn a new cd. |
Sorry, but it's been long since. I am not quite sure but I though they were i686 compatible.
The k6 are compatible with mmx and 3dnow (that's for sure). SOME pentium classic (i586 were compatible with mmx at most, but not all of them). It is impossible to find that info on the Amd website, since they seem not to have a single refference to anything starting with "i".
This wiki also seems to think the same than I do (that is no guarantee though):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86
| Quote: |
sixth generation ("i686") - first member is Pentium Pro (and derivatives, including Pentium II, Celeron (PII), Xeon (PII), Pentium III, Pentium M and Intel Core), later appeared 6x86, K6 (and derivatives K6-2, K6-III), C3, Crusoe
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Though the "Safe CFLAGS center" seems to think the contrary. I am not sure why. Anyway, since they are different processors, they only way to be sure would be to compare features, which I am not willing to do 
Any more accurate info on the subject would be cool (objetive non-wiki info, please).
Maybe it is not fully compatible, but "almost" (tm) compatible. Of course, in that case, you should use the instructions provided above for 2006.1. The livecd should not matter, there hasn't been big changes. |
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i92guboj
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Joined: 30 Nov 2004
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Location: Córdoba (Spain)
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| stubbers wrote: | Thankyou for your fast responses again... I presume that I can just runthrough the 2007.0 tutorial with the 2006.1 files... As the tutorial for 2006.1 dosen't seem to have a tutorial for non live installation...
Cheers,
Stubbers |
I don't know if the 2007 handbook changed much. This one should work ok:
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?style=printable&full=1 |
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mark_alec
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Joined: 11 Sep 2004
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 11:40 am Post subject: |
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| 6thpink wrote: | | Any more accurate info on the subject would be cool (objetive non-wiki info, please). |
Certainly is hard to find stuff. I know that it says in /etc/make.conf.example that k6s are i586. The closest 'evidence' I found was http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2001-06/msg01180.html
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i92guboj
Bodhisattva
Joined: 30 Nov 2004
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Location: Córdoba (Spain)
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 11:57 am Post subject: |
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Yes, you are right, it is hard to find something clear about the issue.
However this other thread also corfirms what yours says: CMOV is not supported:
http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2005-July/049895.html
So, at least in that, k6 is not fully 686 compatible. So, i686 doesn't work. You need i586.
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NeddySeagoon
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Joined: 05 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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stubbers,
If its up an working, no need to reinstall. If its not, use the 2007.0 x86 stage 3. That should run on an i586.
Its CHOSTis i486, now that it provides glibc > ver 2.3, which means that support for 386 CPUs has been abandoned.
Theres no need to change the CHOST, it just means the toolchain can operate on an i486. All the code it produces will be targeted to whatever your CFLAGS are set to.
6thpink,
When you build a kernel for i686 and try to boot it on a k6-2, it won't. It doesn't even panic. Just crashes and restarts until you switch off. There was an issue with one of the 2006.x releases like that. Its discussed on the forums.
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erik258
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Joined: 12 Apr 2005
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Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Any more accurate info on the subject would be cool (objetive non-wiki info, please). |
I don't have any k6-2 or k6-3s to compare, but my pentium and my k6 (actually k6-3d ) both have CPU family 5 in /proc/cpuinfo. All my pentium-2s have stepping 6. So I think at least k6's must be 586.
| Quote: | | support for 386 CPUs has been abandoned. |
I can imagine running gentoo on a 486, but installing it would be an exercise in patience. I can't imagine it would run very well on a 386 anyway ; )
Sounds like the 2007.0 will work, but for the record http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/index.xml lists historical handbooks, including http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/2006.1/handbook-x86.xml for 2006.1 x86
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slycordinator
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Joined: 31 Jan 2004
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Location: Korea
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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| 6thpink wrote: | Yes, you are right, it is hard to find something clear about the issue.
However this other thread also corfirms what yours says: CMOV is not supported:
http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2005-July/049895.html
So, at least in that, k6 is not fully 686 compatible. So, i686 doesn't work. You need i586.
I learned a new thing today |
On the other hand, Intel's specification of i686 doesn't require cmov. So why gcc uses cmov with generic i686 is beyond me. |
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i92guboj
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Joined: 30 Nov 2004
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Location: Córdoba (Spain)
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| slycordinator wrote: | | 6thpink wrote: |
I learned a new thing today |
On the other hand, Intel's specification of i686 doesn't require cmov. So why gcc uses cmov with generic i686 is beyond me. |
This is getting a bit offtopic and the issue is solved, but this is very interesting to me. If you can provide a link to those specifications of more info on about this, that would be nice.
If what you say is true, then the problem is in gcc (and possibly many other compilers). If that is true, gcc's i686 implementation is really a superset of the true i686 specifications. |
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slycordinator
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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| 6thpink wrote: | | slycordinator wrote: | | 6thpink wrote: |
I learned a new thing today |
On the other hand, Intel's specification of i686 doesn't require cmov. So why gcc uses cmov with generic i686 is beyond me. |
This is getting a bit offtopic and the issue is solved, but this is very interesting to me. If you can provide a link to those specifications of more info on about this, that would be nice.
If what you say is true, then the problem is in gcc (and possibly many other compilers). If that is true, gcc's i686 implementation is really a superset of the true i686 specifications. |
http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=8243
The bug states that it's fixed (in spite of the indication that it wasn't fixed).
edit: nevermind, I looked at the linked patch and compared it to the current sources (4.1.2) and it was in fact fixed. Well, sorta.
What they did is make a variable for the types of processors that support cmov. So if I do "march=c3" it won't use cmov. But it still has that if I do "march=i686" it'll include cmov (since most 686 processors support cmov even if it is an optional command). |
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erik258
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 5:24 am Post subject: |
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What does that mean as far as CHOST is concerned?
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slycordinator
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 7:43 am Post subject: |
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| erik258 wrote: | | What does that mean as far as CHOST is concerned? |
That means that if you use the generic make.conf that comes from an i686 gentoo tarball it will never work on Via C3 processors before the Nehemiah core or any other processor that is an i686 that doesn't support cmov.
edit: And it also means that the i686 tarballs probably would give invalid instructions and the i686-enabled livecd could have problems with that processor as well. |
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Installing Gentoo
