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Dirk.R.Gently
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 Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 2:30 am Post subject: Script to Improve Readability in Gentoo-Forums. |
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I've been working on possible solution to improve the legibility of viewing forum posts. This will vary from browser to browser but since the basic code ( i.e. formatting ) hasn't been tinkered with in... well who know how long  , I thought I'd write script to help.
What you'll need:
What it looked like before
What it looks like now
Pretty helpful!?
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Last edited by Dirk.R.Gently on Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:36 pm; edited 7 times in total |
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Kate Monster
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 3:19 am Post subject: Re: Help improve your Readabity in Gentoo-Forums. |
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Same image |
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Dirk.R.Gently
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 4:35 am Post subject: Re: Help improve your Readabity in Gentoo-Forums. |
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FIXED
DOH!
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padoor
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 7:30 am Post subject: |
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it is not very different from old one if not same
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Dirk.R.Gently
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| padoor wrote: | | it is not very different from old one if not same |
I tend to disagree. Since the basic code of the forums probably hasn't been changed for many years, it hasn't compensated for things like increased resolution and monitor size. Also the padding in the previous format wasn't planned accordingly. With little and no padding, and borders that were white!, the eye loses focus. Eyes are draw to brighter objects. Have you tried it padoor, or have you just view the images? I find it perfectly readable.
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padoor
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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i agree the readability is poor in current format. especially true in case of laptops and lcd moonitors.
both screen shots look much better than what i can directly read in forum, in ie firefox and opera
how do i apply your script to my laptop?
in firefox opera and ie.
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nixnut
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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There are fonts that were specifically designed with lcd screens in mind. iirc verdana is such a font. It's part of the corefonts package. There's some trickery you can do with subpixel hinting for xorg too. Some desktop environments have a utility for this to easily play around with such settings. Some info here: http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Xorg_and_Fonts
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PaulBredbury
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Every thread on fonts should include xeffects, to make all non-bitmap fonts look gorgeous |
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Dirk.R.Gently
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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That said this is definitely about fonts AND formatting. The script should make a much Nicer improvement. I'm open to any ideas you may have, as long as it's perfectly reasonable.
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Dirk.R.Gently
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| Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:09 am Post subject: |
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Anybody got this going? I NEEEEEED feedback here. 
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Last edited by Dirk.R.Gently on Sun Jul 29, 2007 1:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Dralnu
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| Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:54 am Post subject: |
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Interesting idea. I might look into it later if I feel like it.
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AllenJB
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:00 am Post subject: |
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Not so much of a problem on these forums, but it's a shame these scripts can't improve peoples spelling and grammar (I've seen some people who don't use any punctuation at all and seem to think their posts are perfectly readable  )
I don't get the "haven't accounted for increased screen resolution". For one thing, that's not true for everyone. I know a number of people who are still using 800x600 CRTs. Secondly, that's something you can alter yourself by changing your browsers default font size. |
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Akkara
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:36 am Post subject: |
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Looking at the two images without having installed it myself:
The darker borders look nice. But they don't seem to go quite as well with the header image nor be as distinguished from the background color of the "FAQ | Search | Memberlist ..." nav bar. I might go with a slightly lighter shade of purple.
Regarding the text itself, I see quite a bit of blue fringing in the "new" image, to the point that it is distracting. There is a bit of blue fringing in the "original" image but not too bad. I wonder why that is - I'm viewing this on a LCD too, which I assume you are. There is no fringing on my firefox window here, and I am using the subpixel stuff (at least I *think I am!) |
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Paapaa
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:26 am Post subject: Re: Help improve your Readabity in Gentoo-Forums. |
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You seem have a problem with your font settings. The color artifacts (mainly blue and yellow - especially in the "old" picture) should not be there. Check:
1. DPI setting in X and firefox.
2. Hinting settings.
3. Are you using the latest freetype WITHOUT bindist USE flag?
4. What is your ~/fonts.conf
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Dirk.R.Gently
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| AllenJB wrote: | | Not so much of a problem on these forums, but it's a shame these scripts can't improve peoples spelling and grammar (I've seen some people who don't use any punctuation at all and seem to think their posts are perfectly readable ) |
I've seen a couple of those.
| Quote: | | I don't get the "haven't accounted for increased screen resolution". For one thing, that's not true for everyone. I know a number of people who are still using 800x600 CRTs. Secondly, that's something you can alter yourself by changing your browsers default font size. |
Thats true, and in fact, Gentoo Forums probably look pretty good on a 800x600. But settings in your browser isn't really a solution. Since many websites use css today, which dictates a fonts size, sites like this one that haven't seen any updates to account for increased-resolution, the fonts look really small on resolutions above 1024. Sure you can set a minimum font size, but designers have typically had to keep readjusting their sites to balance fonts and graphics.
| Akkara wrote: | Looking at the two images without having installed it myself:
The darker borders look nice. But they don't seem to go quite as well with the header image nor be as distinguished from the background color of the "FAQ | Search | Memberlist ..." nav bar. I might go with a slightly lighter shade of purple. |
I had tried this and am considering it. I even tried black, eventually I just came with a the difference between the bright that was before with something that would keep you focused on the text.
| Paapaa wrote: | | You seem have a problem with your font settings. The color artifacts (mainly blue and yellow - especially in the "old" picture) should not be there.... |
Would one of you mind posting the image you are viewing? Possibly the files have been corrupted on the server and I'm only seeing the cached version because mine looks alright.
I put a new version of the image up, look down a couple posts.
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Last edited by Dirk.R.Gently on Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:42 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Dralnu
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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A) You have to be logged in
B) Its in the Ubunutu forums...
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Dirk.R.Gently
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Paapaa
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Dirk.R.Gently wrote: | | Ooop, try this one |
Yes, you have font setting problems. Hinting doesn't seem to be working properly. See my previous message.
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Dirk.R.Gently
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:32 am Post subject: |
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| Paapaa wrote: | | Dirk.R.Gently wrote: | | Ooop, try this one |
Yes, you have font setting problems. Hinting doesn't seem to be working properly. See my previous message. |
Uhhhh, I like it this way. Ok maybe I didn't make my point clearly. I WROTE this Greasemonkey script to help improve legibility reading the forums! I like my fonts as they are, btw, not the extra hinted ( Mac OS X way ) which for me doesn't work as nicely on laptops.
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Element Dave
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AllenJB
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| Dirk.R.Gently wrote: | | AllenJB wrote: | | I don't get the "haven't accounted for increased screen resolution". For one thing, that's not true for everyone. I know a number of people who are still using 800x600 CRTs. Secondly, that's something you can alter yourself by changing your browsers default font size. |
Thats true, and in fact, Gentoo Forums probably look pretty good on a 800x600. But settings in your browser isn't really a solution. Since many websites use css today, which dictates a fonts size, sites like this one that haven't seen any updates to account for increased-resolution, the fonts look really small on resolutions above 1024. Sure you can set a minimum font size, but designers have typically had to keep readjusting their sites to balance fonts and graphics. |
I certainly haven't noticed the Gentoo Forums setting specific font sizes, and any webdev who does it should be shot. Most text should be at the default (AKA "normal") font size and anything else should be sized using the relative methods (percentage, ems, [[x]x-]small/[[x]x-]large, etc). Firefox users (and even users of most other browsers that support user stylesheets) have various tricks they can use to override font settings too. |
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Paapaa
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Dirk.R.Gently wrote: | | Paapaa wrote: | | Dirk.R.Gently wrote: | | Ooop, try this one |
Yes, you have font setting problems. Hinting doesn't seem to be working properly. See my previous message. |
Uhhhh, I like it this way. Ok maybe I didn't make my point clearly. I WROTE this Greasemonkey script to help improve legibility reading the forums! I like my fonts as they are, btw, not the extra hinted ( Mac OS X way ) which for me doesn't work as nicely on laptops. |
No no no. I'm not talking about altering CSS - that is just fine. Both your pictures show color fringing around the fonts. I'm quite positive you don't want that. See these:
http://www.grc.com/cttech.htm (See the "Sample Text String" having colors)
https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-511382-highlight-bindist+freetype+hinting.html (sadly the images on front page no longer work)
I guess you have a DPI setting slightly off.
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Etal
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Paapaa wrote: | | Dirk.R.Gently wrote: | | Paapaa wrote: | | Dirk.R.Gently wrote: | | Ooop, try this one |
Yes, you have font setting problems. Hinting doesn't seem to be working properly. See my previous message. |
Uhhhh, I like it this way. Ok maybe I didn't make my point clearly. I WROTE this Greasemonkey script to help improve legibility reading the forums! I like my fonts as they are, btw, not the extra hinted ( Mac OS X way ) which for me doesn't work as nicely on laptops. |
No no no. I'm not talking about altering CSS - that is just fine. Both your pictures show color fringing around the fonts. I'm quite positive you don't want that. See these:
http://www.grc.com/cttech.htm (See the "Sample Text String" having colors)
https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-511382-highlight-bindist+freetype+hinting.html (sadly the images on front page no longer work)
I guess you have a DPI setting slightly off. |
Umm... How do you know those colors show up on his screen? It's called "sub-pixel hinting," and it is supposed to make fonts look better on some monitors, especially on older LCDs.
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Paapaa
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| AM088 wrote: | | Umm... How do you know those colors show up on his screen? It's called "sub-pixel hinting," and it is supposed to make fonts look better on some monitors, especially on older LCDs. |
Well, it was his screenshot, after all And if he has a TFT/LCD I see no reason why I would see it but he would not.
Really, I'm only trying to help. I saw fonts with color fringing and that is usually a symptom of some wrong settings - mainly DPI. If I'm wrong, then sorry for taking your time - but this might still help someone. It is very common that monitor doesn't send the correct DPI value to X server.
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Dirk.R.Gently
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the input Paapaa, I'll look into it. I wanna keep the subject on track. Has there been anybody that has tried to use the script and what do you think of it. I know alot of monitor sizes can be different so I'm looking for feedback on what I can do to improve it.
One error I have seen is that not all user names are being formated, for instance, in the last post column, in the "View Forum" pages. Anything I missed besides this?
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