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winston_nolan
n00b
Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 71
Location: cape town, south africa
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 Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:49 pm Post subject: If you can do better, code it yourself! [SOLVED] |
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Hi
I recently had a head ache after upgrading squid. Going from a working/stable squid install to a mess where nothing works as it should.
This is for the company I work for. Roughly 100 odd users on the network.
OLD: Squid Cache: Version 2.6.STABLE4
NEW: Squid Cache: Version 2.6.STABLE13
All I did was emerge -pv squid
checked out all the programs that will be installed, seemed fine, so I went ahead.
After my upgrade squid was horribly slow to start, stop or restart.
doing a /etc/init.d/squid restart or reload would result in an error:
squid: ERROR: No running copy
I went to IRC and ranted about how irritating it is for users when everything is working and after an upgrade nothing works,
and I got the classic line :
"if you don't like it, code it yourself, then I'll listen to your whining"
Well my reply is: I do not want to code software myself. I use open source software and contribute financially like I have done to various programmers around the world. I bought Safesquid, WebCDwriter and contributed to various PHP programmers that helped me, so thats what I do.
My point is this: Don't tell me to go code it myself, instead, you telling me to go code it myself, you, you stop coding! Go code at home on your own little applications, don't bother me bringing out your unstable code, don't give me stress because you do a bad job...and then when I complain about, all 100 users complaining at me, for "my bad work" then you come with your funny lines, it's only funny for you because you are probably used to buggy software not really working in production enviroment, or working because you stuck it together with a prayer and a miracle.
In the end, after many hours of head aches, I took a chance and copied over my old init.d script and replaced the new one, this worked, but what's the chances of me figuring this out? It was pure luck,
In any case, this is my story, nothing special, just another day in the life of open source.
cheers,
_________________
Winston Nolan
www.3ampsy.com - PSYTRANCE! Listen to full tracks for Free, and buy various Psytrance related gear.
Please add [solved] to the initial post's subject line if you feel your problem is resolved.
Have a great day!
Last edited by winston_nolan on Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Arniepoo
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 76
Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe ranting isn't the best way of getting problems fixed, especially and IRC.
I get upgrade problems all the time. Usually a new feature conflicting with another package or new use flags. This is part and parcel of using gentoo. For the most part I have always found what I have needed on the forums.
Arnie |
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mrness
Retired Dev
Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 375
Location: bucharest.ro
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:44 am Post subject: Re: If you can do better, code it yourself! |
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| winston_nolan wrote: | | After my upgrade squid was horribly slow to start, stop or restart. |
squid was always slow on stop. starting it however was never an issue AFAIK.
| winston_nolan wrote: | doing a /etc/init.d/squid restart or reload would result in an error:
squid: ERROR: No running copy |
If you break the init script execution, don't complain it gives you errors like this. Run a service zap and next time DON'T PUSH THAT BUTTON!
| winston_nolan wrote: | | My point is this: Don't tell me to go code it myself, instead, you telling me to go code it myself, you, you stop coding! Go code at home on your own little applications, don't bother me bringing out your unstable code, don't give me stress because you do a bad job |
I don't remember forcing you to use it. You chose the software you are running.
| winston_nolan wrote: | | complain about, all 100 users complaining at me, for "my bad work" |
Guess what... You are responsible of your server!
| winston_nolan wrote: | | then you come with your funny lines, it's only funny for you because you are probably used to buggy software not really working in production enviroment, or working because you stuck it together with a prayer and a miracle. |
I am used to work with software, and is a common knowledge there is no such thing as bug-free software.
When I find (or think I've found) bugs in a particular piece of software, I try contacting people in charge, in a respectful manner. I don't yell at them because it is counter-productive, more so if the software is maintained by volunteers. But enough of that... What you could expect from a man who thinks of code lines as being "funny".
| winston_nolan wrote: | | In the end, after many hours of head aches, I took a chance and copied over my old init.d script and replaced the new one, this worked, but what's the chances of me figuring this out? It was pure luck, |
Whatever floats your boat... Make a mental note never to replace your precious init script with the "broken" version that everyone else is using it. |
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Akkara
Bodhisattva
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
Posts: 6702
Location: &akkara
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:32 am Post subject: |
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With 100ish users it might be a good idea to have a spare server to try things on before throwing the big switch and finding out live that it doesn't work. There's never any guarantees in software, open-source or otherwise.
Redundancy and backup are always good ideas. Especially when your job depends on uptime  |
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winston_nolan
n00b
Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 71
Location: cape town, south africa
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | If you break the init script execution, don't complain it gives you errors like this. Run a service zap and next time DON'T PUSH THAT BUTTON! |
how did i brake the init script? i just emerged the latest STABLE piece of software
please explain this,
| Quote: |
I don't remember forcing you to use it. You chose the software you are running. |
another programmer quote...hmmm, yes , i can see your a programmer....ill add that one to my "useless things to say section" thanks,
| Quote: | | Guess what... You are responsible of your server! |
sure i am, but you are responsible for the bugs i get on my own server all of them probably
| Quote: | | Whatever floats your boat... Make a mental note never to replace your precious init script with the "broken" version that everyone else is using it. |
oh sorry, my mistake i thought stable source shouldn't be broke and ready for production?
if i wanted broke i would have used ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="x86"
in any case, i feel you man, i see you coming on strong...
i was just wondering why in hell would something thats stable be so, for lack of better words, unstable
it's all good, i learned my lesson, but please note everything you code, every line you add, it affects people out there that dont necessarily have the skill to dig into the code and fix the "simple mistakes"
no hassles, no issues, just a day in the life of open source as i said,
cheerio
_________________
Winston Nolan
www.3ampsy.com - PSYTRANCE! Listen to full tracks for Free, and buy various Psytrance related gear.
Please add [solved] to the initial post's subject line if you feel your problem is resolved.
Have a great day! |
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mrness
Retired Dev
Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 375
Location: bucharest.ro
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:10 am Post subject: |
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"break", as in Ctrl-C.
The init script is stable because no one has been able to find a bug in it. For the record, I don't consider your rant as being a bug report, it is just another thing for me to ignore.
If you look in bugzilla or these forums you will see you are the only one screaming, which is quite strange for a package with such big popularity.
You probably didn't bother to consult the logs, but hey, you must be right! You are the consumer after all.
One thing though... How the hell you managed to become administrator of the company's server? Aren't certain skills required for this kind of job? Or is it different in your part of the world (Southern hemisphere)? Who could ever employ a Linux network administrator that don't understand a simple bash script?!? |
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i92guboj
Bodhisattva
Joined: 30 Nov 2004
Posts: 10315
Location: Córdoba (Spain)
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 12:20 pm Post subject: Re: If you can do better, code it yourself! |
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| winston_nolan wrote: |
My point is this: Don't tell me to go code it myself, instead, you telling me to go code it myself, you, you stop coding! Go code at home on your own little applications, don't bother me bringing out your unstable code, don't give me stress because you do a bad job...and then when I complain about, all 100 users complaining at me, for "my bad work" then you come with your funny lines, it's only funny for you because you are probably used to buggy software not really working in production enviroment, or working because you stuck it together with a prayer and a miracle.
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Usually, people in "production environments":
1.- do not upgrade unless necesary, or for security reasons
2.- do not blindly upgrade without testing first in an spare net/machine
That is a good way to ensure the downtime will be minimal. And the problems, if any, will be known beforehand, so you can deal with them quickly. Maybe it is you that do not know what a production environment is.
Sure squid is buggy. There are tons of buggy programs. There are even well known buggy OS's that people even pay for. If you don't like it you just don't use it.
But you can be sure that no one is going to listen to you if you enter an irc channel telling a developer how bad, crappy and unworthable his/her work is. You are basically telling them that they have thrown a lot of time of their lives to a trash can. Obviously, that is not a good thing to make friends. |
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winston_nolan
n00b
Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 71
Location: cape town, south africa
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | # $Header: /var/cvsroot/gentoo-x86/net-proxy/squid/files/squid.initd,v 1.7 2007/03/10 09:39:42 mrness Exp $
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please don't tell me you wrote that init script?
OK well that will explain why you come on so strong! first i thought it was because you are romanian
in anycase, relax those panties MR DEVELOPER SIR!
it's all good, you won't get fired - relax....chill.....
in anycase i am doing quite well for myself, so don't you worry about my being hired for whatever skill i might or might not have,
you just keep that code bug free!
love ya!
_________________
Winston Nolan
www.3ampsy.com - PSYTRANCE! Listen to full tracks for Free, and buy various Psytrance related gear.
Please add [solved] to the initial post's subject line if you feel your problem is resolved.
Have a great day! |
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think4urs11
Bodhisattva
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 6659
Location: above the cloud
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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locked before it gets out of hand
@winston_nolan: Please check your tone, that was *very* near a ban!
If you update a server without having a working backup/failover concept at hand it *is* your fault, no doubt about that.
Reasoning 'but it is a stable release' is no excuse.
_________________
Nothing is secure / Security is always a trade-off with usability / Do not assume anything / Trust no-one, nothing / Paranoia is your friend / Think for yourself |
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