Linux, Gentoo and all, is about freedom

owa

In keeping with the true spirit of Linux, that is to say, freedom of choice, I have decided to set Gentoo free. It is now free electrons, floating about the room.
I have heard great things about Gentoo. Stability, frugality of resources, flexibility, and the list of positive attributes goes on. Gentoo users have been quite vocal in defense of their favorite Linux distribution. And this is completely within the basic spirit of Linux, freedom of choice.
However, I have yet, after at least a dozen attempts, to get a completely successful install of this 2007.0 release. Gentoo could well be better than lox and eggs on a N.Y. bagel on a quiet Sunday morning, with my wife and lots of fresh coffee and plenty of bagels and cream-cheese to enjoy as we sip coffee and read the Sunday paper...... could be. I may never know. At least not with this problem-plagued release.
With all the faults attributed to rpm-based distributions, I have never, not once, experienced a failed install. Red Hat's anaconda installer just plain works. Debian, and its several off-spring, installs nearly as easily. Why is it, then, that installing Gentoo is somewhat akin to building a fine automobile from scratch ..... several large crates of parts, gadgets, widgets, nuts, bolts, screws and washers, all with completely arcane names and nomenclature, and vague and sometimes incomplete assembly instructions?
There! I have vented!
Respond, if you choose! I may or may not come back to see if anyone has. As fans of my favorite loosing baseball team, the Cubs, say every fall, "Maybe next year!"

owa
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owa
my wife is my best friend, a computer, Linux, a cold beer, or a cup of black coffee.... life is good!

Habbit · Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:42 pm Post subject:

Er... maybe you could tell us what has failed so we can try to provide you with some help? By the way, as unnerving as this might sound, do _not_ use the Gentoo installers - as of 2007.0 they are too alpha to be effectively used: follow the Handbook and you will be happy, go GTK+ and you will cry.
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Dagger · Retired Dev Joined: 11 Jun 2003 Posts: 765 Location: UK

Welcome to Gentoo

If you believe installation was pain, that... oh well the system itself ain't any easier. But its good, because that allow you to learn how it works, and how to solve the problems rather than just bitch when something is screwed and you can't do anything about it. One of the best side of this distribution is gentoo community. A lot of people who are constantly watching the forums and do their best to help people who has problems.

To make your life easier I would recommend you a Gentoo Handbook. You can find it here.
I know it's not the answer for all your problems, but its a good start.
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Darth Marley · Tux's lil' helper Joined: 25 Jan 2007 Posts: 107

prague14 · n00b Joined: 09 Nov 2007 Posts: 40 Location: USA

The whole point in using a distro like gentoo is to find out exactly how things work. While this community will never attract the "just make my shit work" crowd, my opinion is that gentoo devs should stop wasting time trying to put out "releases" which just piss off potential users when they don't work - this seems to be a serious issue with the Live(C|DV)Ds.
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FcukThisGame · l33t Joined: 20 Apr 2005 Posts: 776 Location: /lost+found

i92guboj

NathanZachary · Moderator Joined: 30 Jan 2007 Posts: 2605

I agree that, at times, Gentoo can be frustrating, but those frustrations are inevitable with such a powerful, customizable distro. Also, those frustrations have a hidden benefit of forcing the user to find solutions and gain understanding as a byproduct therein. As i92guboj stated, there are plenty of distributions out there that are quick, simple installations, but they have drawbacks as well. Linux truly is about choice, and you need to figure out what it is that is important to you in an operating system, and base your choice distribution on those factors.
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nixnut · Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:54 pm Post subject:

Moved from Installing Gentoo to Gentoo Chat.
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jonnevers · Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:55 pm Post subject:

how in the world does the title of thread correspond to the content the OP's post?

mod's would be better to move this to the dustbin then to GC.

Cyker · Veteran Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 1746

G2k · l33t Joined: 06 Mar 2004 Posts: 672 Location: Rome, Italy

What's cool about the gentoo install is that you can pretty much put any livecd into your computer and install it. I installed my Gentoo box from an Ubuntu LiveCD. I doubt you can install Ubuntu from any other livecd as easily. Gentoo has its pros and cons.
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disi · Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 5:54 am Post subject:

Just installed xmms2 and gxmms2 client from source via overlay-ebuild and runs very smooth.

I think I have enough freedom here and if you ask for any packages you are ask to engage and not switch the Distro

Lepaca Kliffoth · Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:37 pm Post subject:

Goodbye.

(someone had to say it)
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grooveman · Veteran Joined: 24 Feb 2003 Posts: 1217

Boy... the docs take such good care of you on an install that, unless you are using some pretty exotic hardware, you should be able to get a system up and running without any problems. If there is one thing that Gentoo is famous for, above and beyond its leanness and flexibility, is its documentation.

Yes, it is trickier than clicking "next"-"next"-"next..." on a RH or Ubuntu install, but if you follow the docs to the letter, you should be fine. They put a lot of work into the Gentoo Handbook, and the steps are broken down to painfully small bits. I question whether or not you are short-cutting the the docs... If that is the case, you should (R)eally (T)ry (F)inding (M)ore about it...

Gentoo is also renowned for its fine community base. It would be wiser to try to take advantage of that for something more than flaming.

Give it another try, when you have the time for it. Most people get frustrated simply because they don't account for the learning curve or compile time. When you get stuck, ask for help. Most of us are pretty nice!
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platojones · Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:10 pm Post subject:

Well, I think the OP is gone at this point (this was the last post made), but I have to say that 'Gentoo isn't for everybody' applies here. It is the only distro of it's kind out there, but I don't think people realize that it takes a good deal more effort to set up than the others. I think Ubuntu is the better choice for people who don't have (or care to spend) the time it it takes to get a gentoo system up and running (and it's not that much, but for some people it's too much). Once you are past the install, that's where you begin to really appreciate this distro for what it is, assuming you like and want the kind of power and responsibility in places in your hands. For those that can't/won't make it past the install, they probably would not appreciate what Gentoo offers anyway.

theethicalatheist · Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:06 am Post subject:

This is really why the live CDs should be taken down. All they do is allow new users to get a bad impression of Gentoo. The GTK installer is atrocious, and all it does is discourage potential users. Keep the standard minimal ISOs around, but ditch the installer until it can function reliably.
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G2k · l33t Joined: 06 Mar 2004 Posts: 672 Location: Rome, Italy

I disagree. I think the installation GUI should be there. There was a working version once upon a time I remember but the newer stuff is horrible.
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hujuice · Guru Joined: 16 Oct 2007 Posts: 336 Location: Rome, Italy

Boot your favorite rmp/apt Linux (dead or alive).
Cook your favorite partitions.
Untar some cute tool.
Chroot in the Gentoo world!

What's more friendly?

http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/list.xml?desc=1

HUjuice
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Thargor · Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:28 pm Post subject:

I think the installer isn't a bad idea. It should just be done right and I do not think, that shipping a at least half broken (or completely broken? :evil:

) piece of software on the official livecd as the preferred installation method...
AND I think, that it was a very stupid idea to prefer a livecd with X11 and gnome and whatever over the stage archives, which you definitely need to install gentoo.
IMO, the best way would be something like a ncurses or dialog installer, so that there is enough space for stages and portage-snapshots. AND the installer should be rockstable, before making it the official installation method.

(Note, that I'm not against everything X11 related. On a dvd, it would be a nice thing, but removing the stages in favor of such an unneeded thing is just stupid...)
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achimh · n00b Joined: 02 Sep 2006 Posts: 54 Location: Austria

hi owa!

i fully unterstand you, gentoo is not that easy even when you have used linux for some time, you have to put quite some time into installing and configuring your gentoo system

what i really can't understand why you just post your frustration and you won't even come back and look at the responses you clearly are receiving. it's just a little bit arrogant...

difficulties and problems are bound to occur when you are new to gentoo, but for these there is this forum and the friendly gentoo users to help you out

NathanZachary · Moderator Joined: 30 Jan 2007 Posts: 2605

Personally, I agree that the GUI-based installers should be removed. When I was starting out with Gentoo, I firstly used one of the GUIs and almost didn't even give the minimal installation disc a try. I was too frustrated with how poorly the GTK+ based installer performed that I nearly switched distros without even giving it another try. I'm really glad that I didn't, because Gentoo is the perfect flavour for me. As stated, this is my personal opinion.

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owa · Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:15 pm Post subject:

First, I want to apologize if my original post seemed arrogant. I just needed to vent .... ref this recent reply to my post;
hi owa!

i fully unterstand you, gentoo is not that easy even when you have used linux for some time, you have to put quite some time into installing and configuring your gentoo system

what i really can't understand why you just post your frustration and you won't even come back and look at the responses you clearly are receiving. it's just a little bit arrogant...

difficulties and problems are bound to occur when you are new to gentoo, but for these there is this forum and the friendly gentoo users to help you out

I didn't get back to this post to respond because I had tons of stuff to do, and my wife already refers to my computer as "the Slut!" Then, when I did return, it had been moved, and I didn't have the time to search for it till this morning.

As an update, I am a succer for a challenge, and definetly prefer to slog things out by reading and studying. Anyway, I tried, once more, from the top, with feeling, as my band leader used to say, and I now have Gentoo up and running, complete with gnome, seamonkey, and nearly all the stuff I have and use on my CentOS 5 installation. When completed, as nearly like the CentOS 5 as I can make it, I'll give Gentoo a good long test drive.

I did enjoy and appreciate the many responses to this post, and, again, apologize if my delay in returning seemed rude or arrogant.

I have nothing at all against either "point-and-click" installers or command-line installations. Just for drill, I even installed this last, and successful try with Gentoo, completely from command-line, chrooted from my running installation of CentOS 5. That way, I could continue with the installation in the background, and still use the computer for other things, like work, and earning my bread.

Thanks all,

owa
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owa
my wife is my best friend, a computer, Linux, a cold beer, or a cup of black coffee.... life is good!

platojones · Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:23 pm Post subject:

owa - Glad to hear about a happy ending. Welcome aboard.